Rappan Athuk: Reloaded SOLD OUT by wide margin!!

[Treebore]

Or maybe said company could deliver its product in a manner consistent with its promises. I don't seem to recall hearing the RAR would only be available through WW. And I don't particularly like the idea of being held hostage to being required to buy through a particular distributor, especially when all indications were that this would not be the case.

White Wolf/Necromancer Games, IMO, has an atrocious record when it comes to releasing product. Can you say, City of Brass? Can you say, Bard's Gate? Promises, promises, promises. To be honest, I'm fed up with their production delays and false hype. Now I find out that RAR was only available through WW or by going to GENCON? What a crock of hype and false promotion. If you're not going to offer it through Amazon (or any other distributor for that matter), then get it pulled from their websites long before the release date.

You wanna call it sour grapes? Go nuts. But I've about had my fill of WW/Necromancer Games and they've lost me as a customer.

I'm sorry you missed all my posts here on ENWorld telling how ordering through Amazon was risky and that pre-order through WW was your best bet. Bill even tried to get WW to do a speical $10 US shipping to Canadians. Yep, guess Necromancer sucks for trying to save you Canadians money too.

As for why RA:R is so expensive:

"Total value of 42-45% of retail is what we normally get from wholesalers. At 1000 copies at $75, that's $75,000, minus the wholesaler discount of 55% leaves $33,750.

We have to assume we will sell most at this number. Keep in mind Clark and I have to share profits w/ WW too. I cannot disclose those numbers and the split though.


Cover--$1,000
Maps and Interior art--reused a bunch, but still was $5,000
Boxes--$1,000
Advertising--$2,000
Printing--$20,000 (guess, based on WL Box set)
Shipping from China--$2,000 or so

you see where this is going.

I fought really, really hard to get 2000 units made, but the sales folks at WW said no-go. The concern is that if we do not sell them all (and our breakeven is about 900 units on 1000 units), we could lose a ton of money. Since we operate on a 0 cash-flow (Clark and I do this as a hobby) you can see where we would really like to make a nickel on it (besides, that would fund the 2007 books). Basically, if they sell at full price, we do ok.

Seriously folks, I make less than $500/month on Necro. Occasionally, I get a big hit (like Tome 2), and occasionally I get killed (like Durbenford---still not sure why we sold so few, its a great book). Most of the time I make a little money, and 1/6 goes to me, 1/6 goes to Clark, 1/3 goes to the writer, and 1/3 goes to taxes, accounting, and expenses, typically. Monte is going through the same terrible math on Ptolos, I am sure.

We tried really hard to make the box set a great value. Those of you who have been around for the past 6 years know we always try to do that. I seriously doubt anyone who gets this will be disappointed. Heck, we added 10 new levels (ok, 6, but one is a 4-level sub-level).

Ok, see if anyone else in industry would be as honest with real numbers....

Bill

This is what Bill web posted on the Necropmancer boards. I think I may have even re-posted it here and got lost in the "big ENWorld Board crash of '06"

Anyways, Necromancer did their best to do right by as many of us as they could.

Unfortunately people like Orgrork never get the word in time.

As for why people are having a hard time hearing about Diamond Fortress, Family Affair, Doom of Lsitonshire, Tower of Jed-something, and Six Spheres of Z-something, it is because they are all being released through Kenzer, not WW.

Why? Because WW only gives Necromancer something like 4 or 6 slots in their publishing schedule per year, and they will bump Necromancer if they need to. So to get more modules out to us, and in a smaller format, they are trying to please us customers by releasing that way through Kenzer.

As for Durbanford I think it is a good book too. It can be a bit railroady but I didn't see it as anything even challenging to fix. Plus it has lots of great material to recycle.

I hope everyone who wants RA:R is able to get one. Necromancer and I did our best to get the word out here on ENWorld and I even did a post over at WOTC a couple of months ago.

 

[Treebore]

Very unfortunate news, considering it's not even available in stores yet.

It shows a rather dreadful bit of mismanagement when making forecasts and determining an appropriate print run. Thumb down to Necromancer Games.

I just re-read your posts over in the Necromancer General forums in the thread announcing RA as a 1,000 box print run. You may want to do the same before posting something with this kind of attitude.

You've known the risks with RA:R for months, and how Bill, because of you and your posts, tried to get WW to reduce shipping to Canada.

Nice loyalty and appreciation there, Arnwyn.

 

[BadMojo]

Right, but they did say quite a few times that it was really risky to order from amazon, and that you should order through your LGS or the WW site instead.

I do remember reading about that a few times here on EnWorld. When Reloaded was announced as a signed 1000 copy run, I immediately preordered it. I decided I wanted it and was willing to pay the $$$. I saw it listed on Amazon but did a bit of research and figured that ordering from them was probably a waste of time.

I don't know why everyone is shocked that Amazon was going to honor that ridiculous price. They are notorious for having wrong info on RPG products, taking forever to get stuff in stock and cancelling orders when they find out the correct price.

It really wasn't hard to find out how to guarantee getting a copy of RA:Reloaded. It seemed pretty obvious to me that trying to get a copy for half the normal price from Amazon was a BIG gamble.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

I agree with folks who feel this is more good news than bad news.

Personally, I was going to wait until I could look at the whole product before deciding to buy it. I'm not sure if "sold out" means I won't have that chance.

1,000 copies seems like a very small print run, but I think it can only work out for the best for gamers. If the product is sold out, there is probably a good chance of a second printing, maybe even one that includes errata. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part.

And if there isn't a second printing, well, at least Necromancer hasn't lost any money on the venture.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I do remember reading about that a few times here on EnWorld. When Reloaded was announced as a signed 1000 copy run, I immediately preordered it. I decided I wanted it and was willing to pay the $$$. I saw it listed on Amazon but did a bit of research and figured that ordering from them was probably a waste of time.

I don't know why everyone is shocked that Amazon was going to honor that ridiculous price. They are notorious for having wrong info on RPG products, taking forever to get stuff in stock and cancelling orders when they find out the correct price.

It really wasn't hard to find out how to guarantee getting a copy of RA:Reloaded. It seemed pretty obvious to me that trying to get a copy for half the normal price from Amazon was a BIG gamble.

But it wasn't available to those people who didn't want to have to go out of their usual buying methods. Some people only buy from Amazon or their FLGS or etc., Apparently Necromancer should be catering to these people, even if it means they lose several thousand dollars in doing so. They owe them that at least.

Seriously though, it was made obvious that this was only going to be a 1,000 item print run. If you really wanted it badly enough you would have pre-ordered through WW at full cover price. If you didn't then you were taking a risk that it sold out before you could get one. I don't know where people got the idea that they were personally entitled to always get what they wanted on their terms.

I personally was interested in getting a copy. I didn't want it badly enough (and didn't have the leftover money in my gaming budget) to pre-order. Chances are that now I will have to have it in PDF format only (unless the second print run goes ahead). I knew that from the start so I can deal with it.

For those of you that still want a copy, Patrick has said that they should still be available from Alliance. If you really want a copy I'm sure you should be able to find a place that has one. Otherwise just make do with the PDF version. It's not Necromancer's fault that you took a chance with Amazon selling it at $25.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Nightfall]

See this is why I consider some people "fair weather" fans or at least think that relying on Amazon is a good thing. Online services aren't known for their accuracy some times unless you directly order from the publisher.

Me, I was already saying "Hey don't order from Amazon.com. You'll get screwed." I was right.

Me I'm loyal and willing!

 

[Soel]

Good news! I'm glad to hear that Necromancer is actually going to make something on this one. I didn't get it, cause i don't currently have a need for a ultra dungeon, but if its anything like the Wilderlands box set, it'll be worth every penny.

 

[2WS-Steve]

Congrats to Necromancer on getting this put together and doing so well.

I'll be purchasing the PDF version since advenures work particularly well for me as e-books.

 

[green slime]

See this is why I consider some people "fair weather" fans or at least think that relying on Amazon is a good thing. Online services aren't known for their accuracy some times unless you directly order from the publisher.

Me, I was already saying "Hey don't order from Amazon.com. You'll get screwed." I was right.

Me I'm loyal and willing!

Well that's nice, for you state-side people.

What about the rest of the planet?

The FLGS isn't favourite, isn't local, and basically isn't even gaming anymore. I can't even get a lot of stuff sent direct to Europe, and if I do, it gets whacked with an enormous duty.

 

[Treebore]

Same thing happens to me when I order stuff from Europe/Africa. Its the price we pay when we want a product only available over seas. Now if laws could be the same as they are for Hong Kong and Thailand, we'd save money.