Raptorans

[herbie]

Pg. 68 of Races of Wild. Explains the Raptorans abilities, which include some skill plus, unerring direction, footbow, low-light vision, +1 air caster along with flying.

My question relates to the no level adjustment. Don't you think this race should be at least +1? if not more. For instance Avariel in Races of Faeraun are +3 (They get some pretty good stat mods, while Raps dont get any) You'd also notice the two different ways those races deal with flying. Anyways, compared to human or Elf, even with the delayed level flying rules the Raptorans get presented with, they still seem more than a 0 level adjustment.

What are your thoughts? And im not sure how to search, so if this has been covered, please send me to the correct thread.

Thanks.

 

[Shellman]

Seems to be balanced enough as is for me!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I concur, they're OK IMO. They cannot really fly all at once, and later on it is nice, but not nice enough to warrant a level adjustment - not with fly spells and magic items and whatnot around.

They're supposed to be a LA+0 flying race, after all...

 

[herbie]

Even when compared to a human does it still seemed balanced?

at 5th level Human would have:
1 Extra Feat
8 Extra Skill points

At 5th a Raptoran gets
+10 Jump
+2 Spot/Climb
Unerring Direction
Low-Light Vision
+1 Air Descriptor Spells
Footbow Exotic Weapon Prof.
Limited Flying Ability
_________________

10th Human
1 Feat
13 Skill Points


10th Raptoran
+10 Jump
+2 Spot/Climb
Unerring Direction
Low-Light Vision
+1 Air Descriptor Spells
Footbow Exotic Weapon Prof.
No Limit Flying Ability


I'm just having a hard time seeing these races as equals Level Adjustment wise.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

At 10th level, the ability to fly is basically just a free, slotless magic item. (And probably not even that, depending on how strict your DM is about the "wings" factor.) It's nice, but it's just not that big a deal.

I think they did a very good job balancing the raptorans.

Avariel, on the other hand, are almost unplayable. Under the LA/ECL system, they have to have a huge modifier (+3 is about right), but at 4th level they die if a bad guy sneezes on them. I suspect that in 4E the designers will go with something much more like Monte Cook's racial levels, instead of the mess that is LA/ECL.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I happen to agree that the Raptorans are not even remotely balanced at a LA +0. True, they don't get Unlimited Flight at first level, but they eventually do- which, although it's technically "just a slotless magic item", that's 108,000 gp for free- in addition to a host of other crap. +10 to jump? Does that compare, at all, to 4 extra skill points at first level? Unlimited Slow Fall? Other skill bonuses? Bonuses to casting spells? Another weapon proficiency?

I understand that they're not nearly as powerful as a LA +3, but they're at LEAST a LA +1. How could anyone rationalize a Raptoran being balanced with a human? Would any human NOT give up his Bonus Feat and extra Skill Point per level for all of the amazing things Raptorans get?

 

[Egres]

I happen to agree that the Raptorans are not even remotely balanced at a LA +0. True, they don't get Unlimited Flight at first level, but they eventually do- which, although it's technically "just a slotless magic item", that's 108,000 gp for free- in addition to a host of other crap. +10 to jump? Does that compare, at all, to 4 extra skill points at first level? Unlimited Slow Fall? Other skill bonuses? Bonuses to casting spells? Another weapon proficiency?

I understand that they're not nearly as powerful as a LA +3, but they're at LEAST a LA +1. How could anyone rationalize a Raptoran being balanced with a human? Would any human NOT give up his Bonus Feat and extra Skill Point per level for all of the amazing things Raptorans get?

Agreed.

Not to mention that with a single feat they can benefit from a Fly spell with endless duration, better speed and operating even in anti magic fields.

 

[herbie]

In our game we are thinking of making them +1, Do you think that sounds like a rather good balance?

 

[Veander]

I see the lack of ability modifiers as the only real reason these guys didn't get an LA. Their extra abilities aren't powerful in combat and that's why people tend to not think they're LA+. In my last campaig I had a player with the Niomus out of Mythic Races (a flying race) and the flying alone was a big help to the party. She saw everything that was coming at them from a distance. Farms, castles, cities, cook fires, you name it, she saw it. She could immediately fly at a 50 ft. rate, so this doesn't truly compare.

I dunno, Herbie. I wish there was a good system for LA. Not having any ability mods and nothing that improves their combat-effectiveness seems to be the reason why this race could be +0. I mean that is what we're talking about with LA. The creature might be able to fly glide and sense true north contantly, but that doesn't exactly mean much in battle.

I can't find any FAQs on this.

 

[Sithobi1]

What's the point of having a +10 to jump/+2 to climb when you can fly?