Tequila Sunrise
Adventurer
What D'karr said.
Personally, I ignore rarity because so far as I can tell, its only purpose is to create more bookkeeping for the DM.
"Rare" Magic Items
- Thread starter Istar
- Start date
Personally, I ignore rarity because so far as I can tell, its only purpose is to create more bookkeeping for the DM.
DarkLord Of DForce
First Post
I guess as a player, and not a DM, I'm feeling this from the other side...
I played D&D, very early on, then didn't play it again until our first 4e campaign (that was about 3 years ago). It was always nice, adventure, kill things, roleplay, find really cool magic items and use them...
Not now. Our DM is absolutely of the mindset that magic and magic items are all *rare* in D&D, and is playing our current campaign with inherent bonuses turned on.
We are at level 4 now, and I've got a basic set of scale armor and weapon that I had at 1st level. No one in our group of 9 has gotten anything extra. (yeah, I know, its a large group but all 9 rarely show up).
Oh, I do have a base level holy symbol (I'm a battlecleric this time).
As far as I'm concerned, we might as well be playing "real life adventures" instead of a magical game called D&D.
Sorry, don't mean to be ranting, but when you take the magic out of the game, well...you take the magic out of the game...
I dunno...its still fun because of the guys, but it isn't the same either...
Guess I just need to suck it up and play, huh?
Later gang...
I played D&D, very early on, then didn't play it again until our first 4e campaign (that was about 3 years ago). It was always nice, adventure, kill things, roleplay, find really cool magic items and use them...
Not now. Our DM is absolutely of the mindset that magic and magic items are all *rare* in D&D, and is playing our current campaign with inherent bonuses turned on.
We are at level 4 now, and I've got a basic set of scale armor and weapon that I had at 1st level. No one in our group of 9 has gotten anything extra. (yeah, I know, its a large group but all 9 rarely show up).
Oh, I do have a base level holy symbol (I'm a battlecleric this time).
As far as I'm concerned, we might as well be playing "real life adventures" instead of a magical game called D&D.
Sorry, don't mean to be ranting, but when you take the magic out of the game, well...you take the magic out of the game...
I dunno...its still fun because of the guys, but it isn't the same either...
Guess I just need to suck it up and play, huh?
Later gang...
Guess so.
Honestly, most of my games, dnd and otherwise, tend to be either down in the mud low fantasy (usually gurps or m&m) or what I consider traditional high fantasy (heroes with fantastic powers and magic items are rare but significant). After all, Lord of the Rings has very few magic items in it and, aside from the gifts from the elves, none are commonplace and all are significantly powerful.
In my WotBS campaign I use my own variant of Inherent bonuses. At 11th level the group has, iirc, 5 permanent magic items (one artifact, the rest are iconic tools of major factions). I recently took a poll of my group since they are largely dnd boys and found they're all pretty cool with the lack of toys. When they get an item, they know it's a big deal. And in 4e particularly, PCs are always getting a new toy through powers and feats at almost every level.
And I'll admit it partly because I'm lazy. I'd rather focus on story and character development than decide on 116 magic items through the course of the campaign, half of which are going to be sold/transmogrified into residuum.
DarkLord Of DForce
First Post
We're not allowed to make anything of our own...
Balesir
Adventurer
Most of my players don't have strong enough or complex enough "wishes" to make "wish lists" - so we hardly use them. Even where they exist, I use them basically as inspiration/ideas if I think they would be neat.
The place the players really get constructive control, IME, is with item creation, transfer enchantment and selling/buying/residuumising items. This is a great, party-inclusive activity in our game, and a major reason I dislike the "Rarity" thing is that it totally neuters this aspect of party planning and strategy.
So - I treat Commons and Uncommons just the same (as old-style "magic items") and Rares as Artifacts (which is what I think they should have been all along).
The place the players really get constructive control, IME, is with item creation, transfer enchantment and selling/buying/residuumising items. This is a great, party-inclusive activity in our game, and a major reason I dislike the "Rarity" thing is that it totally neuters this aspect of party planning and strategy.
So - I treat Commons and Uncommons just the same (as old-style "magic items") and Rares as Artifacts (which is what I think they should have been all along).
Arctic Wolf
First Post
I guess as a player, and not a DM, I'm feeling this from the other side...
I played D&D, very early on, then didn't play it again until our first 4e campaign (that was about 3 years ago). It was always nice, adventure, kill things, roleplay, find really cool magic items and use them...
Not now. Our DM is absolutely of the mindset that magic and magic items are all *rare* in D&D, and is playing our current campaign with inherent bonuses turned on.
We are at level 4 now, and I've got a basic set of scale armor and weapon that I had at 1st level. No one in our group of 9 has gotten anything extra. (yeah, I know, its a large group but all 9 rarely show up).
Oh, I do have a base level holy symbol (I'm a battlecleric this time).
As far as I'm concerned, we might as well be playing "real life adventures" instead of a magical game called D&D.
Sorry, don't mean to be ranting, but when you take the magic out of the game, well...you take the magic out of the game...
I dunno...its still fun because of the guys, but it isn't the same either...
Guess I just need to suck it up and play, huh?
Later gang...
Are you playing Dark Sun setting? Because to me, the way your DM plays would be perfect for that.
Anyways, I don't really have a problem with common magic items. I mean while it would take awhile for a divine person to bless, or arcane person to enchant an item to make it better, I see no reason to limit them. And right now I am going to try to run something where all my party only has magic weapons (I run without inherent bonuses) and they come up with their own effects. (I am copying Bleach in a way with the shikai and bankai but we shall see what happens).
Sorry if I got off track xD
Marshall
First Post
What he said. Ignore rarity altogether, its a half-formed disaster that gets worse every time they try to errata it.
I really like the rarity system. As I see it, rarity works this way:
Common: "math" items. Simple, easy to play, make the 4e math work. Kind of boring. Not needed if you use inherent bonuses.
Uncommon: Interesting, useful, have some sort of special power. But easy to forget/ignore.
Rare: "Character defining." Very interesting and useful. So compelling, it gets pulled out in nearly every session, and becomes part of a character's schtick.
If you analyze the random-treasure-generator math, you'll find that characters should receive the following over the course of a tier:
4 common items (+ enough money to buy/craft two more common items)
3 uncommon items
1 rare item
In my WotBS game, I use inherent bonuses and just drop common items entirely. I choose uncommon items fairly casually and quickly. For the rare items, I really think carefully about who should get it, what their play style is, and what would be so compelling that it really is character-defining.
For a low-magic game using inherent bonuses, I think you could drop everything but the rares and have a really fun, exciting game where magic items were highly-valued and awe-inspiring.
Common: "math" items. Simple, easy to play, make the 4e math work. Kind of boring. Not needed if you use inherent bonuses.
Uncommon: Interesting, useful, have some sort of special power. But easy to forget/ignore.
Rare: "Character defining." Very interesting and useful. So compelling, it gets pulled out in nearly every session, and becomes part of a character's schtick.
If you analyze the random-treasure-generator math, you'll find that characters should receive the following over the course of a tier:
4 common items (+ enough money to buy/craft two more common items)
3 uncommon items
1 rare item
In my WotBS game, I use inherent bonuses and just drop common items entirely. I choose uncommon items fairly casually and quickly. For the rare items, I really think carefully about who should get it, what their play style is, and what would be so compelling that it really is character-defining.
For a low-magic game using inherent bonuses, I think you could drop everything but the rares and have a really fun, exciting game where magic items were highly-valued and awe-inspiring.
DarkLord Of DForce
First Post
Nope, we're not playing Dark Sun. We're in Forgotten Realms, but as I said, its nearly a magic free world, at least as far as the items go.
Its still fun playing with our group. This is our 2nd campaign, first one lasted 3 years and its a good bunch of guys, I just wish the DM wasn't so gung ho about the "magic doesn't grow on trees" mentality.
Ah, its all good - it'll work out in the end I reckon.
Marshall
First Post
Great. Now go through the list of Rares and find one thats less than 25th level and that a PC would even notice he was carrying, let alone define his character with.
Now go through the list of commons and find all the items that actually ARE character defining(Staff of Sleep and Charm, anyone).
Now go through the list of Uncommons and find all math fix/accounting gimmicks that a ~5th level PC should be assumed to have(Bag of Holding,HHH,etc.)
Rarity, as written and as recently updated, is incoherent at best. If you as a DM want to re-write the entirety of the lists of magic items to fit what you think it should be, go ahead. Just dont assume that the current lists will tell you ANYTHING about the value of any item.
