Pathfinder 1E Rate Paizo as a Company!

[Wicht]

That's valid, I think.

But, the point here is that you cannot make positive assertions using such polls as evidence. Because that assumes the polls are representative, of which there is no evidence. So when someone says something like "hardcore gamers are sticking with 3.5, look at the poll results", that's just as erroneous as what you're talking about.

Fair enough.

When I make such a claim please call me on it.

 

[carmachu]

never mind.

 

[Plissken]

Love their products.

Online ordering from there website takes too damn long though. Just to get the order processed. I don't mean shipping time.

 

[carmachu]

I think Razz got banned from the Paizo boards recently. At least I can't say I've seen him.

Actually, he had a drama queen moment and made a big post about leaving and not coming back.....

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizo/websiteFeedback/goodbyePaizo

Whether he got banned after that I cant say. I'm not wading through the mess.

 

[primarchone]

Ummm... no. Internet polls are in no way, shape, or form, statically sound for this kind of thing. I completely understand the way random population sampling can create an accurate picture of a larger group. But, saying that self-selecting Internet polls of hardcore audiences have any relation to the wider RPG community, even the purchasing community, is complete and utter nonsense.

Hi!

Correct!

As I mentioned in my previous post with numbers easily verifiable, the "posting community" is a VERY small proportion of the total consumer base for D&D.

The inference one could make from any poll here, regardless of subject is:

"Out of the people whom voted the opinion is.... "

Any attempt at extrapolation, whether pro or against a point, to apply it outside of this forum to the market at large is, to put it mildly, misleading.

Just because we can post and voice opinion, even when passionately, doesn't mean they have any bearing on the RPG market.

Only the market in objective terms (cold hard sales figures) will tell you if a certain idea/company/product has indeed succeeded.

All else is personal opinion and speculation.

Primarchone

 

[Wicht]

As I mentioned in my previous post with numbers easily verifiable, the "posting community" is a VERY small proportion of the total consumer base for D&D.

You are confusing two seperate issues. The point I was trying to make earlier was that the size of the community is almost completely irrelevant when it comes to the value of the poll. The self selecting nature of internet polls like these is a genuine factor in their trustworthiness. The size of ENWorld in comparison to gamers at large not so much.

To illustrate consider Ohio. The population of Ohio is much smaller than the population of the United States at large. But pollsters often say of Ohio that they consider it representative of the larger population and something of a Bellweather when it comes to National elections. Whether said pollsters are right or wrong has absolutely nothing to do with what percentage of the United States lives in Ohio.

 

[Fifth Element]

Fair enough.

When I make such a claim please call me on it.

You're not the only one in the thread.

 

[Wicht]

You're not the only one in the thread.

I'm not?!

HEY YOU KIDS! GET OUT OF MY THREAD!

 

[Gothmog]

Bingo. Most gaming groups have a minimum of one passionate gamer (and that person is generally the DM). That gamer buys every book that enhances their game and many more that just give ideas. They read magazines and reviews of material. They hang out in game stores and discuss this their opinions at length. They go online and talk with others equally passionate.

If that passionate gamer leaves their current game (i.e. D&D) and turns towards a new game (i.e. Pathfinder), it really is only a matter of time before the group follows.

Yep, what you're saying is very true. One or two people in a group are passionate about gaming, and are the ones that steer the group's choices to what games they play. I know I usually DM, and when me and my group became dissatisfied with 3.x D&D, they told me to find another game out there that we'd like. I did a lot of searching, and brought Savage Worlds, Hackmaster, and WHFRP2 back to the table, and we tried them all, and loved them. Are there other good games out there? Sure- but maybe not to our tastes.

However, in what I've seen around where I live and in people I've talked to in my FLGS (and the FLGS employees have told me their experiences, which mirror my own), people as a whole are NOT dissatisfied with 4e. In fact, my FLGS can barely keep the core books in stock, and 8/10 people (yes, one guy is keeping track over there) who I talk to or who speak with the employees of the FLGS are positively disposed towards 4e (ranging from like it, but want to see more, all the way to ultimate fanboy). The huge proportion of gamers some posters have said they are seeing as anti-4e is something I'm just not seeing relfected in reality, and sales figures (size of the 4e print run and selling through the first one so quickly) from WotC don't seem to bear out a huge anti-4e sentiment either. Sure, there are some people who don't like 4e, and thats cool- but most people who play D&D don't have enough emotional investment to get worked up and feel betrayed by WotC for changing the game. And thats the vast majority of gamers folks. Most gamers, whether the are crazy about 4e or not, will continue to play it, because its the currently supported game, and its D&D.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

At the risk of being classed a fanboi, I rated them a 6 due to the fact that I have enjoyed their products, have received premium customer service from them and in the many times that I have ordered from them, I have not had a single issue or problem in terms of quality or delivery. I can obviously understand others not having such a dream run with a company but in all honesty, this has been my experience. The guys at paizo love the hobby that I cherish, love what they do and it shows in how they have come across to the majority of their customers (or so I perceive). [On a sidenote, I would say similar things about WotC and their staff - on the other poll, I gave them a 5].

I wasn't going to respond to this thread (and maybe I'm silly for doing so given how I feel), but in all honesty, I wish these types of threads would just go away. Not because of the question asked (which in its neutral self is a valid one - and not to say that it has been posted neutrally), but because it gets a whole stack of people either attacking or defending some version of the game or using said poll to try and make some sort of point co-existent with some agenda. These types of threads seem to have provided an annoying distraction from what made the EN World boards so great and such a staple in my browsing habits over the past five+ years. I can understand people being passionate about our hobby but it has seriously drowned out the boards over the last month or two. I just wish some of you guys could take your passion and re-direct it into something more positive. YMMV.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise