Vyvyan Basterd
Adventurer
If that's the real measure then let's look at WoTC sales vs. Paizo sales. WoTC wins!
I currently do buy WoTC products and have severed all ties with Paizo since they decided not to support my game of choice.
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Pathfinder 1E Rate Paizo as a Company!
- Thread starter Samuel Leming
- Start date
If that's the real measure then let's look at WoTC sales vs. Paizo sales. WoTC wins!
I currently do buy WoTC products and have severed all ties with Paizo since they decided not to support my game of choice.
JeffB
Legend
I was going to give them a 5. Obviously a stellar crew with great material, and they seem to have a very down to earth approachable business mind-set. Erik Mona is a class-act through and through and I hope they sell a $**tpile of Pathfinder books 
That said, I had to vote "4" since they won't be supporting 4E, and I'm not a fan of 3.x in any incarnation, so I'm a *wee* bit dissapointed over that- sorry Erik
That said, I had to vote "4" since they won't be supporting 4E, and I'm not a fan of 3.x in any incarnation, so I'm a *wee* bit dissapointed over that- sorry Erik
NiTessine
Explorer
I voted "5", mostly because I can still view them and their work critically.
Not that there's really a lot to criticise. I'm not too keen on the paper they used on the Rise of the Runelords Map Folio, there's been the occasional editing error, and let's face it, their forums are a mess.
However, they've still been consistently producing quality material, with some of the finest adventure modules I've ever read, run or played. Pathfinder RPG and its open playtesting are both excellent concepts and well executed. The Planet Stories line is bringing old, classic fantasy and science fiction back in print. That's awesome.
Also, now that horrible, horrible things are happening with the RPGA, I can find solace in the Pathfinder Society organised play campaign.
Paizo gets my money, too. WotC doesn't (with the possible exception of a Paul S. Kemp novel, every now and then).
Not that there's really a lot to criticise. I'm not too keen on the paper they used on the Rise of the Runelords Map Folio, there's been the occasional editing error, and let's face it, their forums are a mess.
However, they've still been consistently producing quality material, with some of the finest adventure modules I've ever read, run or played. Pathfinder RPG and its open playtesting are both excellent concepts and well executed. The Planet Stories line is bringing old, classic fantasy and science fiction back in print. That's awesome.
Also, now that horrible, horrible things are happening with the RPGA, I can find solace in the Pathfinder Society organised play campaign.
Paizo gets my money, too. WotC doesn't (with the possible exception of a Paul S. Kemp novel, every now and then).
Gothmog
First Post
Hmm, I had to think about this for a minute, but after consideration, I had to say Paizo gets a 2.5 from me, but I'll be generous and round up to a 3. My reasons:
* Their fluff is decent, if somewhat cliche and vanilla. Nothing exceptional, but occasionally really campy and kinda dumb. Rise of the Runelords AP is a good exmaple of this, as are the last 2 years of Dungeon and Dragon. Nothing really bad, but nothing that stood out as really great either.
* Thier mechanics are average to occasionally very poor. Their stat blocks usually have some fairly obvious errors in them (and I'm not a statblock checker kind of guy), and they tend to design adventures for a very over-the-top power level. Paizo suffers very bady from "slap another template on it" monster syndrome, which I find a rather lazy way to add variety to adventures.
* I'm very leery of Pathfinder RPG. From reading Pathfinder Alpha, I don't think the folks at Paizo have a very good grasp of the problems inherent in the 3.x system. In fact, Pathfinder works to make the existing problems WORSE in many cases- and yes, I've played the Alpha rules as a player 4 times- I couldn't imagine trying to run it as a DM.
* From what I've seen and heard, their customer service is good, and whenever Erik Mona posts on these boards, he seems like a really nice, cool guy. Paizo also seems to listen to their fans fairly well, although I find most of the tastes of the Paizo staff not to my liking.
* One big negative is not necessarily from Paizo themselves, but from their fanboys. Wow, I thought some of the 4E fanboys could be elitist, confrontataional, and emotionally twitchy- they are nothing compared to some of the venom and vitriol I've looked at on the Paizo boards over the last 2 years, but especially since 4E came out. Those are the kind of people Paizo SHOULD NOT listen to if they want to keep any credibility. Again, not Paizo's fault, but hopefully the whackjobs have little influence with them, for the long-term sake of their company.
* Their fluff is decent, if somewhat cliche and vanilla. Nothing exceptional, but occasionally really campy and kinda dumb. Rise of the Runelords AP is a good exmaple of this, as are the last 2 years of Dungeon and Dragon. Nothing really bad, but nothing that stood out as really great either.
* Thier mechanics are average to occasionally very poor. Their stat blocks usually have some fairly obvious errors in them (and I'm not a statblock checker kind of guy), and they tend to design adventures for a very over-the-top power level. Paizo suffers very bady from "slap another template on it" monster syndrome, which I find a rather lazy way to add variety to adventures.
* I'm very leery of Pathfinder RPG. From reading Pathfinder Alpha, I don't think the folks at Paizo have a very good grasp of the problems inherent in the 3.x system. In fact, Pathfinder works to make the existing problems WORSE in many cases- and yes, I've played the Alpha rules as a player 4 times- I couldn't imagine trying to run it as a DM.
* From what I've seen and heard, their customer service is good, and whenever Erik Mona posts on these boards, he seems like a really nice, cool guy. Paizo also seems to listen to their fans fairly well, although I find most of the tastes of the Paizo staff not to my liking.
* One big negative is not necessarily from Paizo themselves, but from their fanboys. Wow, I thought some of the 4E fanboys could be elitist, confrontataional, and emotionally twitchy- they are nothing compared to some of the venom and vitriol I've looked at on the Paizo boards over the last 2 years, but especially since 4E came out. Those are the kind of people Paizo SHOULD NOT listen to if they want to keep any credibility. Again, not Paizo's fault, but hopefully the whackjobs have little influence with them, for the long-term sake of their company.
Aus_Snow
First Post
They're a class act (sorry, couldn't resist it). Good people making good stuff, and treating their customers well, consistently. Which is generally all I ask for from RPG companies. Some of their products don't appeal to me, whereas I find others to be excellent.
So, a solid 4.
So, a solid 4.
Hussar
Legend
I would have given them a much higher rating had they actually produced the web enhancements for the last three Dungeon magazines in the six months that they had to do so. I bought the last AP with the understanding that these web enhancements would be available. They had six months to produce them and failed to do so.
It made me realize that they absolutely didn't care that I had paid for the Dungeon subscription, they had already moved on to their next shiny thing. What made me move away from Paizo is what will happen if, six months down the road, another shiny thing pops up? Am I going to be left in the lurch yet again?
Sure, people are going to pipe up and say that the web enhancements were freebies, but, for me, they were a major buying point. A major part of my decision to buy the STAP was because of those web enhancements. They couldn't be bothered to finish the job before moving on to brighter pastures, so, I can't be bothered with them as a company.
For the life of me I cannot understand why it takes so long to produce these web enhancements. They've got the files already. How long does cutting and pasting take? Two, three hours tops? They couldn't get one person in six months to finish these off? To me, they just couldn't be bothered, and then, to top it off, they pointed the fingers at WOTC saying that WOTC was stopping them from taking more time to produce the enhancements.
Just bad form IMO.
It made me realize that they absolutely didn't care that I had paid for the Dungeon subscription, they had already moved on to their next shiny thing. What made me move away from Paizo is what will happen if, six months down the road, another shiny thing pops up? Am I going to be left in the lurch yet again?
Sure, people are going to pipe up and say that the web enhancements were freebies, but, for me, they were a major buying point. A major part of my decision to buy the STAP was because of those web enhancements. They couldn't be bothered to finish the job before moving on to brighter pastures, so, I can't be bothered with them as a company.
For the life of me I cannot understand why it takes so long to produce these web enhancements. They've got the files already. How long does cutting and pasting take? Two, three hours tops? They couldn't get one person in six months to finish these off? To me, they just couldn't be bothered, and then, to top it off, they pointed the fingers at WOTC saying that WOTC was stopping them from taking more time to produce the enhancements.
Just bad form IMO.
Merlin the Tuna
First Post
My feelings mirror Gothmog's pretty closely. The fluff I've seen has never grabbed me, and the crunch has generally been face-palmingly bad. My gaming group was shocked to see the complaints about the magazines getting canceled; we had long written them off as worthless.
And I look at Pathfinder (the Alpha, at least; I won't be following further) and see a train wreck waiting to happen. The impression I get is the same one I get when you run into that guy that knows 3.5 Wizards are awesome because the CharOp boards say so, but doesn't really know why that's the case. As a result, the game is getting a rejiggering, but rather than fixing some of 3.5's big issues, they seem to be exacerbating them. The last version of the Alpha brought words to mind that I remember hearing used to describe the 3.0 Psionics system. "It somehow manages to be completely overpowered and completely underpowered simultaneously." The backwards compatibility also appears to be somewhat dubious as best.
And finally, there's the website. Frankly, the thing looks like a placeholder. I half expect it to have 90's looking gifs of sirens and street signs declaring it to be "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" each time the stars align enough for me to glance at it. The boards in particular suffer from poor aesthetics, to say nothing of the community itself. While I've run into plenty of people around ENWorld and GiantitP that are avid supporters of Paizo, the Paizo.com boards are not the sort of place that reflect well on the company as a whole.
They get a 2 from me. Like Spiderman movies, I keep coming back to check what the buzz is all about, and I keep getting disappointed. I'm glad that other people enjoy their work, but, well, I'm not voting on behalf of other people.
And I look at Pathfinder (the Alpha, at least; I won't be following further) and see a train wreck waiting to happen. The impression I get is the same one I get when you run into that guy that knows 3.5 Wizards are awesome because the CharOp boards say so, but doesn't really know why that's the case. As a result, the game is getting a rejiggering, but rather than fixing some of 3.5's big issues, they seem to be exacerbating them. The last version of the Alpha brought words to mind that I remember hearing used to describe the 3.0 Psionics system. "It somehow manages to be completely overpowered and completely underpowered simultaneously." The backwards compatibility also appears to be somewhat dubious as best.
And finally, there's the website. Frankly, the thing looks like a placeholder. I half expect it to have 90's looking gifs of sirens and street signs declaring it to be "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" each time the stars align enough for me to glance at it. The boards in particular suffer from poor aesthetics, to say nothing of the community itself. While I've run into plenty of people around ENWorld and GiantitP that are avid supporters of Paizo, the Paizo.com boards are not the sort of place that reflect well on the company as a whole.
They get a 2 from me. Like Spiderman movies, I keep coming back to check what the buzz is all about, and I keep getting disappointed. I'm glad that other people enjoy their work, but, well, I'm not voting on behalf of other people.
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Shemeska
Adventurer
I think Razz got banned from the Paizo boards recently. At least I can't say I've seen him. They've also been moderating out personal attacks, regardless of what end of the 3.x or 4e fanboy spectrum they fall on. It has improved greatly as far as I've seen it.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
If that's the real measure then let's look at WoTC sales vs. Paizo sales. WoTC wins!
I currently do buy WoTC products and have severed all ties with Paizo since they decided not to support my game of choice.
I thought this was a "personal" rating, not a global rating? In other works, it doesn't matter for "my" vote whether a majority buys Paizo or WotC products, but whether I do. At least according to the "Metric" in the post you quoted.
Well, if EN World woudn't be a strongly moderated placed, I wouldn't be surprised if some of my fellow 4E fans wouldn't be as annoying and venomous as some of Paizo fans on Paizos board.
Case in point, I think. Moderation helps improve the tone.
And remember, fan comes from fanatic...
Gothmog
First Post
Very true, and I'm thankful for the thoughtful moderation on ENWorld. Not many folks come here to pick fights, but instead to discuss ideas and comparisons between games. To be honest, I haven't seen much venom from 4E players, but I think proseletizing might be a better word in some cases. Don't get me wrong, I love 4E- but forcing your opinions on someone else and counting them as absolute truth, no matter what the context, won't help and often hurts.
