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DungeonmasterCal

First Post
I'd like the opinion of the wise and learned members of this august assemblage regarding this home brew race. I've taken the Neandertal (partially based on Jean M. Auel's novels) and added some abilities of the Rilkans from Magic of Incarnum.

Is the LA +0 or higher? Does it seem playable or interesting? Can it bake a cherry pie?

Guti

· +4 Str, +2 Con, -4 Dex, -2 Cha,
· Base Land Speed 30
· All Knowledge checks treated as trained
· +1 to all Knowledge and Bardic Knowledge checks
· +3 Aid Another action if other is a Guti, +2 otherwise
· Guti carry within them and can draw from the memories of their individual ancestors.
· Guti receive the Sturdy feat at first level automatically. (This doubles the CON Bonus to hitpoints each time the feat is taken).
· +1 to Fortitude saves versus extreme natural heat and cold.

Guti stand about 5’4” to 5’10”, and weigh around 180 to 240 pounds. They have much larger and denser muscles compared to their human cousins, and are much stronger and hardier. They aren’t quite as agile, however, and their very direct way of dealing with others often comes off as brusque or even rude.

They have heavy, overhanging brows and large, even bulbous noses that are holdovers from their more ancient ancestors whose memory tells the modern Guti of an age when the world was covered in ice and summer never came. They tend to be barrel chested with little waist, and both men and women have facial hair in the form of long sideburns. Men often sport short beards, and both sexes often braid their hair with small shells and semi-precious stones woven in. Their skin tones are usually dark, and their eyes dark, even black.

Their racial memory that gives them the ability to make knowledge checks with a +1 bonus on any subject, whether they are trained in it or not. When using the Aid Another action with another Guti, they bonus is +3, as opposed to the normal +2. To draw upon Ancestral Memory, a Guti must make an intelligence check of DC 15. If they fail, they cannot try to tap that particular memory again for 24 hours. A Guti can make an Ancestral Memory check a number of times per day equal to their intelligence bonus, +1 per every 3 levels.

The Guti are not savage barbarians, but are a very artistic and spiritual people. There are no priests or clerics among their people. Druids and Spirit Shamans fill these roles. They are especially drawn to the Akashic class because of its ability to draw upon past knowledge, and some warriors follow the Champion of Ancestors path. Guti prefer negotiation to conflict, but if pushed to the limit, they can be formidable foes. They tend to live in the mountains and foothills on the fringes of Human lands, and trade in ivory, furs, and precious metals.
 

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Andre

First Post
If you're comparing to Core races, it's too good for +0, but a bit weak for +1. What jumps out at me is that this race gets a +4 to Str, +2 Con, and bonus hit points. Ignoring the other bonuses, the only real penalty is the -4 Dex and -2 Cha, which don't really balance the above.

Eliminate the Con bonus and the free Sturdy feat, and you're probably there (+4 Str is huge for a melee type). Another option is to simply reduce the bonus to Str to +2. That would be a strong +0, but perhaps not too strong.

As for playability, I'm curious how much use the ancestral memory ability will be. It sounds fun, but I suspect it would have to be handled carefully so as not to be too good, nor completely useless.

I like the idea of a fighter type with useful knowledge skills. Might be too useful, depending on the campaign, but I still like it.
 

DungeonmasterCal

First Post
Thanks, Andre. What I may end up doing is dropping the +2 Con and leaving the sturdy feat. Actual Neandertals, pound for pound, were much, much stronger than our Cro-Magnon ancestors. They were also very tough and resilient, as evidenced by the number of broken and healed bones found in their fossils.

The Neandertals in the "Clan of the Cave Bear" series all held racial memories, which I think scientifically is a load of crap, but it made a unique element to the stories. The Rilkan race from Magic of Incarnum is where I drew the bonus to knowledge checks and such, so I do think it will add a pretty unique flavor. The new homebrew world I'm working on only has "modern" humans and the Guti "neandertals" as available PC races, so I wanted to give them some unique abilities to set them apart.
 

borble

First Post
in my games, this is, like, an la +3.....
ben
EDIT:
Guti carry within them and can draw from the memories of their individual ancestors.
+2

· Guti receive the Sturdy feat at first level automatically. (This doubles the CON Bonus to hitpoints each time the feat is taken).
+1

+1 to Fortitude saves versus extreme natural heat and cold.
worded wrong
 

javcs

First Post
Andre said:
If you're comparing to Core races, it's too good for +0, but a bit weak for +1. What jumps out at me is that this race gets a +4 to Str, +2 Con, and bonus hit points. Ignoring the other bonuses, the only real penalty is the -4 Dex and -2 Cha, which don't really balance the above.

Eliminate the Con bonus and the free Sturdy feat, and you're probably there (+4 Str is huge for a melee type). Another option is to simply reduce the bonus to Str to +2. That would be a strong +0, but perhaps not too strong.

As for playability, I'm curious how much use the ancestral memory ability will be. It sounds fun, but I suspect it would have to be handled carefully so as not to be too good, nor completely useless.

I like the idea of a fighter type with useful knowledge skills. Might be too useful, depending on the campaign, but I still like it.
Agreed, mostly, I'd consider going with DMCal's modification of dropping the Con bonus but keeping the Sturdy feat, or vice versa, depending on how they're intended to fit into the setting.

Alternatively, if the Dex penalty was reduced to -2, or Con was boosted to +4, you'd have a pretty solid LA +1 race.

Giving them low-light/darkvision, depending on how you see them may also work for a quasi-respectable +1 LA (I haven't gotten to reading the Clan of the Cave Bear series, so I don't know if that would make sense or not).

It seems that a Craft bonus may be in line with the flavor.
 

evilbob

Explorer
I would also suggest that the OP has about a +1 LA. Even dropping the +2 Con doesn't really make it a +0, just because +4 Str is such a tremendous advantage. It's still much better than all the +0 core races.

If you're really wanting a +0, I would make it +2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Cha, and keep the rest. Look at the (admittedly low-end) Half-Orc as an example: it's the only +Str core race, and it takes two negatives in order to balance it.

If you're wanting a +1 LA, I would change the Dex penalty to -2 and leave the rest. That's somewhat close to a Goliath, which is (admittedly at the tip-top of the high end for) a +1 LA.
 


robberbaron

First Post
DungeonmasterCal said:
· Guti carry within them and can draw from the memories of their individual ancestors.

For me I'd say +1 is OK, though the see-saw ability bonuses/penalties is more than I would normally like (+4/-4 doesn't necessarily mean Balanced), but the above line is a sticking point.

Do you mean that they know everything their ancestors knew? That would be a huge bonus.
 

DungeonmasterCal

First Post
robberbaron said:
For me I'd say +1 is OK, though the see-saw ability bonuses/penalties is more than I would normally like (+4/-4 doesn't necessarily mean Balanced), but the above line is a sticking point.

Do you mean that they know everything their ancestors knew? That would be a huge bonus.

They have to make a Knowledge (Ancestral Memory) vs. DC 20 to access a memory. The writeup isn't finished yet, but I see it giving them a +1 to whatever action they're trying to accomplish by tapping the racial memory.
 

Spatzimaus

First Post
As others have said: Way too much for LA+0, weak for LA+1.

The stats aren't balanced. The +4 STR is a huge boost; it's one of those stats that really needs more than one negative to balance in the first place. When I tried to make an LA+0 "heavy" race, the Half-Ogre, its stats ended up as STR +4, INT -2, WIS -2, CHA -4, and then I threw on DEX -2, CON +2. Even that was a bit too strong in practice, but we also added a bunch of other penalties to the race.

A -2 CHA is just nothing. If you really want to penalize the race, you need to subtract INT; losing skill points can HURT in the right type of campaign. The -4 DEX hurts, but not that much for the classes this race is ideal for; you won't be doing much ranged combat, you'll be wearing heavy armor anyway, and the loss of initiative or Reflex is minor.

On the other hand, other than Sturdy, the rest of the race's "flavor" abilities are extremely weak. Having a small bonus to Knowledge skills doesn't really mean much when Knowledge(any) isn't a class skill for any of the classes the race is designed for. (Wizard and Bard?) And the boost to Aid Another when the other is the same race, or the +1 save boost, aren't even worth mentioning. But Sturdy makes up for this. It's SO strong to a race that already has a CON boost AND is designed to play the tank role anyway. So, that easily bumps you up to an LA+1.
 

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