Rationalising HP: a simple fix?

[Hairfoot]

Would a simple (if imperfect) fix for the abstract hitpoint "problem" simply be to divide a character's current HP by 5 and assign penalties for each range?

E.g. a fighter with 50 HP fights normally from 41-50 HP, gets -1 to hit, damage, and reflex saves from 31-40 HP, -2 from 21-30 etc.

Is anyone using something like this, and is it working out?

 

[Chris Lawrence]

Would a simple (if imperfect) fix for the abstract hitpoint "problem" simply be to divide a character's current HP by 5 and assign penalties for each range?

E.g. a fighter with 50 HP fights normally from 41-50 HP, gets -1 to hit, damage, and reflex saves from 31-40 HP, -2 from 21-30 etc.

Is anyone using something like this, and is it working out?

This sort of system is fairly common within house rules and in non-d20 games. It's known as the 'death spiral,' because once a creature is injured, it becomes less competent at fighting and thus more likely to be injured again, after which it becomes even less competent, and so on... Gamewise, instituting a death spiral will tend to favour sides with better healing and with greater numbers. Sides with no healer or with all their fighting power concentrated in one or two tanks will tend to perform less well under death-spiral rules. In the end, I think it really comes down to feel. If A) you envision HP as physical damage, B) you believe that people usually become progressively more disabled as they are injured in a fight, and C) you get a more satisfying experience when D&D is closer to your beliefs about reality, then you'll probably like the death spiral.

 

[Clay_More]

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=82837

Grim-n-Gritty rules. Exactly what you talk about.

 

[Hairfoot]

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=82837

Grim-n-Gritty rules. Exactly what you talk about.

Ha! I established this thread as a result of reading the GnG one!

I like the GnG concept - like it a lot - but it has weaknesses which undermine the D20 system (as posters there point out) and adds another level of dice rolling and complexity to the game.

The death spiral is easy to implement and hardly varies the SRD at all. But thanks for the reference.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I actually played a stand-alone adventure last night and tried out my own GnG system for the first time. I had my players at 10th level and gave them max hp (along with the monsters) to compensate for the 'death spiral':

Healthy (3/4 hp to full hp)
Full-Round Action: Free
Standard Action: Free
Move Action: Free
Free Action/No Action: Free

Injured (1/2 to 3/4 hp)
Full-Round Action: 1 hp
Standard Action: Free
Move Action: Free
Free Action/No Action: Free

Disabled (1/4 to 1/2 hp)
Full-Round Action: 2 hp
Standard Action: 1 hp
Move Action: Free
Free Action/No Action: Free

Dying (1 to 1/4 hp)
Full-Round Action: 4 hp
Standard Action: 2 hp
Move Action: 1 hp
Free Action/No Action: Free

Dead (0 hp)

We had a lot of fun with this system, especially when the tank repeatedly tried to climb a rainslicked wall and kept falling down! I left all monsters immune to crits with hps as is, but without the death spiral.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

As to what we imagine hp as represenative of, I have a very unorthodox idea about that. I imagine hp to be just another manifestation of the magical world that D&D is. People and creatures that experience regular trauma/injury gain a certain amount of control over their pool of 'inner reserves' and are able to instantly heal a certain amount of injury.

The idea of hp representing 'action or dodge power' is just rediculously juvenile. The idea of a regular fighter-guy getting run through with a sword and 'just taking it' is only a little better.

 

[Machiavelli]

The idea of a regular fighter-guy getting run through with a sword and 'just taking it' is only a little better.

ABSOLUTELY!
Anything worse than a superficial flesh wound will bleed out and kill a human being (or potentially mythical races, if they can be assumed to made out of roughly the same flesh and blood) unless quickly healed. I've always figured heroes of the D&D world can heal themselves to a limited degree, and so they can take serious physical punishment without dropping (of course I usually employ a knock-out rule, such that taking damage more than 1/3 of your HP in a single blow forces a Fortitude save with unconsciousness on failure)

 

[glass]

Would a simple (if imperfect) fix for the abstract hitpoint "problem" simply be to divide a character's current HP by 5 and assign penalties for each range?

How exactly does that fix anything?

HP still don't make a lot of sense, and you have actually found a way to make D&D less realistic, which really takes some doing!


glass.

 

[Hairfoot]

You'll have to explain that to me in more detail. I'm not bothered by the notion that HP represents not being hit as well as the capacity to take hits. What does bother me is the concept that a fighter hoves through an orc horde unscathed, then gets dropped by one lucky blow.

This death spiral business adds some qualities of pain and fatigue, making combat more realistic, if anything.

I used to play Rolemaster, and the simplicity of HP makes me cry with joy. I've no desire to go back to hyper-realistic, hyper-time-consuming combat!