[Rave] Happy with 3.5e core rulebooks.

[Darrin Drader]

Baraendur - I have similar issues with Spring Attack. Why do you think it is broken and what is a good fix?

OK, I understand the limitations of this feat, but it allows a character that takes it to effectively become to perfect wizard killer. They move in through enemy lines, make an attack, and then move back out without drawing attacks of opportunity. At that point if the wizard intends to cast a spell, he has to make a concentration check. This can be done repeatedly, thereby rendering the wizard next to useless and very vulnerable despite a good front line defense. It is possible to stack additional feats on this to make it even more scary.

Unfortunately, the only fix I can think of is nerfing it. BTW, Spring Attack is one of the only things from the core books that I've nerfed in my own game. Most of the other rules support people have similarly nerfed it in their games as well.

 

[hong]

OK, I understand the limitations of this feat, but it allows a character that takes it to effectively become to perfect wizard killer. They move in through enemy lines, make an attack, and then move back out without drawing attacks of opportunity. At that point if the wizard intends to cast a spell, he has to make a concentration check. This can be done repeatedly, thereby rendering the wizard next to useless and very vulnerable despite a good front line defense.

Even in 3.0, Spring Attack only negates AoOs from the target, not anyone else.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Even in 3.0, Spring Attack only negates AoOs from the target, not anyone else.

Probably true. I didn't bother opening my book to reference it before making my comment.

 

[hong]

You wouldn't be one of those guys who answers rules questions on WotC's tech support phone line, would you?

 

[Darrin Drader]

You wouldn't be one of those guys who answers rules questions on WotC's tech support phone line, would you?

Actually no. I deal strictly with email.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

OK, I understand the limitations of this feat, but it allows a character that takes it to effectively become to perfect wizard killer. They move in through enemy lines, make an attack, and then move back out without drawing attacks of opportunity.

From the wizard, perhaps. The rest of the line still gets to smack him around.

At that point if the wizard intends to cast a spell, he has to make a concentration check. This can be done repeatedly, thereby rendering the wizard next to useless and very vulnerable despite a good front line defense. It is possible to stack additional feats on this to make it even more scary.

A wizard would only have to make a concentration check if he were attacked in the process of casting a spell with a casting time greater than one round, or if his casting provoked an attack of opportunity.

 

[talinthas]

My girlfriend opened up the book and became incredibly happy that she could finally understand the rules, and how synergy worked and how the new rogue was cool, and that made me happy.

The books have my approval =)

 

[Ezrael]

I haven't read them well enough yet to say with certainty that there are no rules changes that make me hate them (I love most of what they did with the Ranger, as an example, but I want that d10 hit die back. But that's a minor quibble in my eyes.) They are, however, very attractive books. I'm glad they kept the art they did, the art they included is generally good (anything by Wayne Reynolds, Sam Wood, Todd Lockwood...hell, I should just print the Artist list from MM 3.5 and be done with it) including the cutaway picture on page 69 of the DMG. Hopefully after tonight's game I'll get a chance to give them a read through.

 

[JeffB]

Two Thumbs up from me..

After Monte’s Review, I was a bit leery of the revised books due to it’s focus on mini’s. Before that review I was fairly enthused for the new books to arrive.

I bought the books this past week, and honestly, I think for the most part they are a big improvement (this is coming from someone who has never fully embraced 3E as it is, it’s been a love-hate relationship for the past 3 years).

There ARE lots of rule changes. Some big, most are subtle, but I think most folks will be able to get along fine mixing and matching products for both versions (3.0 & 3.5).

Now here are some of the things that I think make the new books so great:

1) CLARITY. Rules are clearer, text is clearer, everywhere throughout the books it seems, WOTC made things much more clear, and easy to understand. I often encountered a paragraph somewhere in the 3.0 books where I just shook my head and said “WTF”?. I’ve yet to see this in the new books.
2) SIMPLIFICATION: A lot of the rules now have a better “common sense” or simpler approach: jumping for instance, facings, concealment, grappling, trips, etc. There were lot of things that were cumbersome in play, and or difficult to grasp that have been smoothed out. The experience with tweaking and refining the D20 system (ala D20M, CoC, & SWRCRB) shows up nicely in these books.
3) ORGANIZATION: The DMG especially benefits from this. Stuff is where you think it should be, not split among several chapters, and the chapter order makes sense. The MM too benefits greatly here. Stat-blocks are not split up and easier to use during play, etc.I would still prefer 1 to 1 monster to page, but this is still much better IMO.
4) NERFED: Actually I hate that term (along w/ Dungeon Crawl..but I digress). IMO many things were too ramped up for 3E (power-wise) and now they have been scaled back: Vorpal weapons, threat range bonuses, many spells, magic items that have reigned in a bit or now cost significantly more to create, etc. I’m sure some things will still seem “too much” for me, but this a is a big step in the right direction.
5) DAMAGE RESISTANCE: I know this a big can’o worms, but I like the new DR rules. I like the fact that a PC NEEDS a Silver weapon to harm a were-wolf, just any old magic sword will not do (reminds me of 20 years ago, when you would roll up a fighter in Basic or AD&D and of course he would always have the obligatory silver dagger in a boot somewhere…just in case, hee hee).

Those are some of the big ones. I do like the inclusion of some Planes material (as well as Epic) in the DMG. I own MoTP (it’s my fave 3.0 hardcover), but it’s great for new DM to have a primer, as well as the vet DM having the basic available in one book. I also think many of the art pieces have improved. I’ve never been a fan of 3E art in general (I suspect I really only like about a dozen to twenty of the pieces total in all three 3.0 core books), but there are many better new illustrations. Many of them done by Wayne Reynolds, whom I think captures the spirit of the “good ol’ days” and translates it to 3.X better than any of the other 3.0/current artists. I still don’t think WOTC went far enough (i.e. the displacer beast, elf, orc, troll, and a few others are just plain AWFUL IMO and the new fire-giant is horrid) but overall it’s an improvement.

I think it’s a very worthwhile purchase.

P.S. I picked up Kenzer’s Dangerous Denizens too: best Monster book this side of Tome of Horrors. Lot’s of cool stuff, Very useful outside of a Kalamar campaign.

 

[drnuncheon]

Agreed on the art - I can't think of any of the new pieces that were real stinkers. I do regret the loss of "Tordek vs. the Dragon", though. That was a cool and inspiringly heroic picture. (At least we kept 'Krusk helps Jozan climb the cliff'.)

J