D&D General Ravenloft, horror, & safety tools...

[overgeeked]

I reckon use common sense and ‘if in doubt, play it safe’, are probably more sensible than a checklist.

You use a checklist because one person's common sense is another person's wild leap of logic. The checklist lets you know some of the things your players don't want included, things that you would probably not think to ask about otherwise or not think would be a problem to include...then suddenly one of your players is having a huge problem at the table. Safety tools and checklists exist to avoid blundering into your players' fears, phobias, and traumas.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So not wanting transphobic language, sexual assault or lurid descriptions of gore are just normal behaviors.

I can’t think of any circumstance why I would include these things in a game for friends, let alone strangers.

I reckon use common sense and ‘if in doubt, play it safe’, are probably more sensible than a checklist.

I mean, there is a near infinite number of DMs and players who are ready and willing to go WAY into edgelord territory to feel mature and cool like they're in an HBO show and don't get that not everyone thinks that's okay. Or Mature. Or Cool.

 

[John R Davis]

It's very odd what triggers people, WHEN the fundamental aspect of DND " go into someone elses home, slaughter them, take all their stuff" is fine by 99%+ of players.

 

[TheSword]

I mean, there is a near infinite number of DMs and players who are ready and willing to go WAY into edgelord territory to feel mature and cool like they're in an HBO show and don't get that not everyone thinks that's okay. Or Mature. Or Cool.

Yeah. Just don’t play with those kind of people. A checklist won’t change them.

Common sense comes from players as well as DMs.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Well, they're not claiming to be effective tools for mental health at the gaming table. They explicitly recognize that the DM and players are not mental health experts and so provide them to most basic of rudimentary tools precisely to avoid having a mental health episode at the gaming table...because neither the DM or the players are likely to be trained mental health professionals.

Other than vague feelings that safety tools are bad, can you point to how safety tools are actually bad or causing gaming culture harm? For me, I don't think talking about safety tools or mental health is bad. I don't think safety tools in use are bad.

If you mean it's bringing out overt cruelty in people who were previously subtly cruel previously, I'd agree. It's one more angle cruel people use to be cruel. That doesn't mean the tools themselves are bad.

Exactly. Safety tools exist to help minimize things like having a panic attack at the table.

Again, safety tools are meant to help prevent mental health episodes at the table. That's the point of them. If your group knows that confined spaces will trigger a mental health episode, they damned well better avoid putting your character in a confined space. That's the point. If your group knows you have trouble with confined spaces and the DM puts your character in a confined space anyway...they're naughty words. You should game with better people.

You keep saying that safety tools and open discussion make things worse. I would like you to point to something outside your feelings on the issue that would suggest you're correct. I don't think open discussion is bad for mental health. I don't think safety tools are bad for mental health.

I already gave reasons. I can try to elaborate. You don't have to agree. Safety tools are not protection against a mental health episode. Like I said I had bad PTSD. I actually had a panic attack during a game once and had to go to the emergency room. I had no idea what was going on at that time. No amount of trigger warnings would have been able to stop that panic attack. A panic attack like that can arise from anything (thinking bad thoughts, eating the wrong food, jogging the wrong memory, getting a weird feeling from the room). What is more, I shouldn't be putting that kind of thing on the other players at the table. That is something I need to be able to resolve on my own. If start setting parameters for my friends because of this problem, it damages the relationships, it forces them to behave in very uncomfortable ways and it doesn't help me at all.

And most phobias don't work this way either. Most people who have phobias can handle movies and mentions of the thing in question (for example spiders or heights). Having someone like me who is afraid of heights, climb a mountain isn't going to present any issues because phobias are a fear of the real thing, not a fear of the idea of the thing. Only in extreme cases will someone be set off by a movie or a mention. But the problem with how this has changed the hobby is you would think extreme reactions to mentions of spiders, bad weather, etc are extremely prevalent. You see this on twitter and on livestreams where people use safety tools. Just about everyone in the room checks off a trigger. I think this is inviting a performative element to it. And that would be fine, except that is harmful to people who really have these issues (a good analogy is how people who are just refraining from gluten for dietary issues have actually made it more difficult for people who have celiac and gluten sensitivity because they make people who work at restaurants and serve foods more skeptical of requests for no gluten). And if someone is in rough enough shape that mentioning a spider creates a problem, that is a mental health issue to resolve outside of game. That doesn't mean be mean to the person. But we can't shape everything around the possibility that someone at the table has a very rare and extreme phobia.

 

[TheSword]

You use a checklist because one person's common sense is another person's wild leap of logic. The checklist lets you know some of the things your players don't want included, things that you would probably not think to ask about otherwise or not think would be a problem to include...then suddenly one of your players is having a huge problem at the table. Safety tools and checklists exist to avoid blundering into your players' fears, phobias, and traumas.

If I’m putting something in that could reasonably be expected to cause upset... sexual assault for instance then I should have the common sense to check first if it’s going to offend people.

If I have a phobia or trauma that isn’t reasonably expectable - severe arachnophobia for instance - then it should be on me to drop a note to the DM to warn the people I play with.

That’s the fair way of playing it. I won’t be using checklists again.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah. Just don’t play with those kind of people. A checklist won’t change them.

Common sense comes from players as well as DMs.

Look, maybe I've just been having a bad few decades, but I can't flash read everyone's mind at every table I walk up to. That crap is often a surprise because again, for some people, this sort of stuff is so acceptable that it doesn't warrant advertising.

When someone goes their entire gaming life describing viscera in... visceral... detail it doesn't often occur to them other people aren't into that--especially if others are too uncomfortable to speak out against con strangers and the like.

I feel like those of us who have regular groups take that for granted and don't consider the suffering that is pick-up games. Finding a new group or DM, or rapid-scanning every group instantly to know whether you'll get on with them isn't a given.

 

[Steampunkette]

Yeah. Just don’t play with those kind of people. A checklist won’t change them.

Common sense comes from players as well as DMs.

Without the checklist or a discussion about it I don't know that they're "That sort" of DM 'til it happens in game.

By then I've spent hours investing myself into the setting, my character, the party...

I'd rather have the checklist up front and be like "Well these are the things that make me uncomfortable" have the DM go "HAH! You're not gonna have fun at my table, then!" and then I get to walk away without:

A) Wasting my time.
B) Being exposed to hurtful things.

Massively better!

 

[overgeeked]

What is more, I shouldn't be putting that kind of thing on the other players at the table. That is something I need to be able to resolve on my own.

It's okay to ask your friends for help. That's what friends do.

 

[DnD Warlord]

I crossed a line by accident once. So I am more then glad to have tools to stop that.

I described a “Jack the ripper” murder in a city and when the party ignored that hook but also went to hire a new hires ing I had the killer join them... they literally left him and a teen half elf on watch while they explored a cave and came back to find her dead... I didn’t think I went into overly gory details but one player almost quit over it