D&D 5E Raw ability checks - proficiency or not?

[Henry]

Having trouble understanding one rule - if someone is called upon to make a simple ability check, do they add proficiency to this or not? I understand skill checks and saving throws (which ones have proficiency and which don't), but if someone needs a raw strength check to bend an iron bar, for example - do you add proficiency? It seems as if you should ("old age and treachery will defeat youth and inexperience", etc etc) but my read of the PH so far implies "no".

Thanks in advance!

 

[Thaumaturge]

I don't believe so except for certain situations, like Remarkable Athlete or the like.

Thaumaturge.

 

[mips42]

I'm not sure what specific situations you're thinking of where a stat would apply but a skill would not but, I would agree that, in those situations, Proficiency bonus would not be added.
EG: If you ask for a Dex check but it's not Acrobatics or Stealth, you would go off the raw Dex mod and not add the proficiency or skill bonuses. If the player has a feat that comes into play, then yes, add any bonuses from that.
If may or may not be purely RAW but it makes sense.

 

[Hjorimir]

Good question! I'd probably give the proficiency bonus if the character was proficient in the saving throw (so in your example, I'd give it to Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, and anybody who may have taken the Resilient - Strength feat).

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That's why skills exist - to allow you to add your proficiency bonus to certain ability checks in certain situations.

If no skill is applicable, then it's generally not something where training and experience really matter. Technique won't get you very far when it comes to bending an iron bar in half.

 

[jrowland]

One way to look at it: there is only ability checks, of which saves and skills are a sub-set. Thus the strange "Make a wisdom (perception) check" wording.

So if a skill or a tool applies to that ability check, then yes, of course. To bend an iron bar...I don't see what skill would apply, but if someone had proficiency with a tool called "The Iron bar bending tool" and actually used said tool, then yes, of course. One could argue save could apply to bend the bar (which means certain classes get a bump) but I'd argue saves only apply to saves.

 

[jrowland]

That's why skills exist - to allow you to add your proficiency bonus to certain ability checks in certain situations.

If no skill is applicable, then it's generally not something where training and experience really matter. Technique won't get you very far when it comes to bending an iron bar in half.

Bender from Futurama is skilled in bending and gets to use his proficiency bonus.

 

[Wolfskin]

I've been allowing proficient ability checks for very specific situations in which the character's Background is related to the check in question, such as a Sailor tying knots, predicting the weather at sea or having hearsay knowledge about sea gods. Mostly flavor stuff, though, not really something game changing.

 

[Umbran]

One way to look at it: there is only ability checks, of which saves and skills are a sub-set.

The Basic rules, at least, commonly refer to Ability Checks, Attack rolls, and Saving Throws as separate things. And I think it is probably important for language to keep that distiniction - so when they say you add something to an ability check, they are *not* referring to attack rolls or saving throws. When they refer to adding something to a Save, they are *not* talking about ability checks.

You're correct, in that mathematically they are nearly identical - "save proficiency" is like having a skill. But, we can easily imagine things in the DMG that might impact Ability Checks and Saves differently.

 

[jrowland]

You're correct, in that mathematically they are nearly identical - "save proficiency" is like having a skill. But, we can easily imagine things in the DMG that might impact Ability Checks and Saves differently.

Absolutely. There is RAW, and there is "One way to look at it."