D&D 5E (2024) RD&D MM will have nearly 500 Monsters, and new NPCs.

[Loren the GM]

I think what would be most helpful for me is either scaling guidance/options for monsters, allowing them to be used at various play tiers (i.e., here is how to make a CR 16 skeleton), or variants built for multiple CR options making the general type of creature generally viable across tiers (i.e., here are four different skeletons one each at CR 1, CR 5, CR 10, and CR 15).

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The point is the have a monster with magic equipment built into its design and CR so when you swap eqiupment, the CR stays the same.

So if that make a Evil Aesir warrior with a lightning hammer, red dragon scale, and winged boots and you switch it to a flame tongue, arctic mail, and a magic carpet, the CR and tactics doesn't change.

I only think magic items should be built into the stat block in an official book if it's like a named character.

 

[Minigiant]

The problem with tricking out the NPCs with magic items up front is that you are taking power away from DMs, who might not want those items going to the players. Why not let the DM add the items to the base NPC if they want to make them more powerful?

Because there is no way to calculate CR when adding magic items to base monster.

If you don't want to use the monster's items as treasure, don't use the monster.

If you don't have monsters with items, you can't have many warrior monsters that challenge PCs over ~level 8 because:

1. they don't deal enough damage
2. they don't have enough toughness
3. they don't have decent ranged, AOE, and melee attacks
4. they don't have additional movement types
5. they don't have resistances and immunities

BTW in MMOTM, almost all the humaniod monsters above CR 5 have magic items. The duergar, giths, and and such.

 

[dave2008]

The point is the have a monster with magic equipment built into its design and CR so when you swap eqiupment, the CR stays the same.

So if that make a Evil Aesir warrior with a lightning hammer, red dragon scale, and winged boots and you switch it to a flame tongue, arctic mail, and a magic carpet, the CR and tactics doesn't change.

Not for me. We play in a low magic setting so I like the fact the game doesn't assume magic items. That way it is easy to keep CR the same by giving monsters the same amount of gear as my PCs.

 

[dave2008]

Well I disagree with about everything you say here.

Because there is no way to calculate CR when adding magic items to base monster.

I don't know what you are talking about, this is right in the DMG. I've done it many times. Of course what I find is that you don't need to adjust CR at all if you are matching the magic item capacity of the PCs.

If you don't want to use the monster's items as treasure, don't use the monster.

This is an interesting comment because the correct monster selection can solve pretty much all the issues you list below. So you are advocating selecting the correct monsters on one hand, but not the other.

If you don't have monsters with items, you can't have many warrior monsters that challenge PCs over ~level 8 because:

1. they don't deal enough damage

Use stronger monsters. Basically higher CR

1. they don't have enough toughness.

Use tougher monsters. Basically higher CR. However, in D&D Beyond you can filter monsters HP and AC. So a pretty quick procedure.

1. they don't have decent ranged, AOE, and melee attacks

Use monsters with decent attacks

1. they don't have additional movement types

Use monsters with different movement types. In D&D Beyond you can filter monsters by movement type.

1. they don't have resistances and immunities

Use monsters with different resistances and immunities. In D&D Beyond you can filter monsters by resistances and immunities.

You can achieve all of the above by selecting different monsters. Or you can add traits and abilities to existing monsters, or you can add magic items (which is functionally the same). All of these options are really about selecting the right CR monster for the task.

Now, if you want to use magic items to achieve those goals, that is 100% OK, but you don't have to.

BTW in MMOTM, almost all the humaniod monsters above CR 5 have magic items. The duergar, giths, and and such.

I don't know what MMOTM is. That being said, I am not against giving monsters magic items, but I personally prefer to keep that with the DM. With one exception, named NPCs / unique monsters. Like Orcuc should probably a more magic items than just its wand. Individuals in adventures should have magic items, but keep them out of the MM, at least IMO.

 

[Minigiant]

Not for me. We play in a low magic setting so I like the fact the game doesn't assume magic items. That way it is easy to keep CR the same by giving monsters the same amount of gear as my PCs.

You are missing what I mean fundamentally.

I am not saying to give every monster magic items.

I'm saying to add the CR 15 Orc Champion of Grummsh to the MM. And the Orc Champion of Grummsh will have a magic spear that he can throw and return to him so he have a good range and and a magic talisman that summons a black pegasus to fly. This way a level 15 part cannot just snipe him from the air.... because they are level 15 can can cast of Fly in 4 people effortlessly.

don't know what MMOTM is. That being said, I am not against giving monsters magic items, but I personally prefer to keep that with the DM. With one exception, named NPCs / unique monsters. Like Orcuc should probably a more magic items than just its wand. Individuals in adventures should have magic items, but keep them out of the MM, at least IMO

Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse

 

[dave2008]

You are missing what I mean fundamentally.

I am not saying to give every monster magic items.

I'm saying to add the CR 15 Orc Champion of Grummsh to the MM. And the Orc Champion of Grummsh will have a magic spear that he can throw and return to him so he have a good range and and a magic talisman that summons a black pegasus to fly. This way a level 15 part cannot just snipe him from the air.... because they are level 15 can can cast of Fly in 4 people effortlessly.

OK, I understand now. I don't mind if they do that with one or two, but I still feel like that is better handled in an adventure. Again, magic and magic items are not common in my campaign, so it is space I don't need to used up in the MM. So I don't mind the idea, and I would by OK with it. However, I prefer more monsters than an orc with magic items. That is me personally, but I get the other people want other things.

Fundamentally it is not something I need, so I don't want it in the book. I don't really have enough information if it is something a majority of DMs/groups need so I can only answer it on a personal level.

EDIT: Ideally, IMO, this is handled in the DMG in the encounter design area. The should talk about party expectations per Tier and how to adjust monsters/CR/encounters when a group is above or below those expectations. Advice which could include adding magic items.

 

[the Jester]

Because there is no way to calculate CR when adding magic items to base monster.

Sure there is- you just treat them as if the items were part of the creature's innate stats when you evaluate the CR. +1 sword? That's +1 to attack bonus and, say, +3 damage per round (assuming a three strike Multiattack).

If you don't want to use the monster's items as treasure, don't use the monster.

That is a remarkably unsatisfying answer. Things in the MM should be usable in basically any style of campaign, including one with minimal magic items. The books should empower dms, not undermine them out of the gate.

If you don't have monsters with items, you can't have many warrior monsters that challenge PCs over ~level 8 because:

1. they don't deal enough damage
2. they don't have enough toughness
3. they don't have decent ranged, AOE, and melee attacks
4. they don't have additional movement types
5. they don't have resistances and immunities

None of that has to be true. You can simply design an npc warrior how you want. 150 hp, four greatsword attacks that deal 2d6+5 (Str 20) +4d6 (arbitrary bonus due to monster badassery), with an option to make four longbow attacks that do almost the same damage, make him a custom dragonborn for fire resistance and flight... this really isn't much of a problem.

 

[dave2008]

Sure there is- you just treat them as if the items were part of the creature's innate stats when you evaluate the CR. +1 sword? That's +1 to attack bonus and, say, +3 damage per round (assuming a three strike Multiattack).

In most cases such a minor change doesn't do anything to the CR. However, adding a +3 flame tognue would!

 

[tetrasodium]

OK, I understand now. I don't mind if they do that with one or two, but I still feel like that is better handled in an adventure. Again, magic and magic items are not common in my campaign, so it is space I don't need to used up in the MM. So I don't mind the idea, and I would by OK with it. However, I prefer more monsters than an orc with magic items. That is me personally, but I get the other people want other things.

Fundamentally it is not something I need, so I don't want it in the book. I don't really have enough information if it is something a majority of DMs/groups need so I can only answer it on a personal level.

EDIT: Ideally, IMO, this is handled in the DMG in the encounter design area. The should talk about party expectations per Tier and how to adjust monsters/CR/encounters when a group is above or below those expectations. Advice which could include adding magic items.

Lord Dungeon Master, the common folk outnumber you & the players in your campaign but contain many groups with GMs who do.