RE: Barbarian's HP in Rage

[irdeggman]

Ok, they do more damage, but wouldn't other classes excel at that more so? i.e. fighter or rogue etc? I mean i thought barbarians were the type who could rage run in without caring much, but it just seems to delay the effect. If it was Temp hit points first, that'd be worth it...

am i wrong?

I agree with shilsen.

The rage bonuses are "untyped" which means they stack with other effects (Bull's Strength anyone?).

Barbarians get d12 hit die (the largest of any class).

They get more skill points than a fighter too.

Barbarians get a large selection of class benefits that are pretty sweet without being unbalancing (hence the hit points bonus from raging and the fatigue effect ({at lower levels - note that at 17th level a barbarian is no longer fatigued}).

Barbarians get:

Increased movement (great for races like say a dwarf)

Uncanny Dodge {retains Dex bonus to AC even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible opponent) and Improved Uncanny Dodge (not flanked) (not available as feats so tough luck mister feat magnet-fighter).

Barbarians retain their class benefits while wearing medium armor (rangers lose theirs in heavier than light).

If all you are interested in is the hit points - then you are correct that all by itself is a real poor class benefit, but since it it part of a package the entire package must be looked at.

No class (un-buffed) can do as much damage as quickly as a raging barbarian using power attack with a 2 handed weapon - until higher levels when spellcasters start to shine in their damage output.

 

[werk]

...and don't forget damage reduction that is bypassed by nothing.

 

[irdeggman]

...and don't forget damage reduction that is bypassed by nothing.

Yeah - I didn't bother listing that one since it is such a low number, even though it does exist.

 

[irdeggman]

I find the extra hit points to be a severe liability. I've seen more barbs die from having their rage end...

And early on in 3.0 we had the same thing happen. But usually this is because of player error - not an unknown liability with the class. Sort of like a wizard beign in melee with a raging barbarian. Usually the wizard ends up dead and almost always due to player error for not recognizing the flaw in the concept.

 

[Elethiomel]

I find the extra hit points to be a severe liability. I've seen more barbs die from having their rage end...

Uh... that just means that without those extra HP they would already be dead before their rage ended. How's living a few more rounds a liability, exactly?

 

[RigaMortus2]

Some would say that a good feat for a Barbarian is Diehard, if you are worried about losing your hp and dropping too soon.

Personally, I don't like the Diehard feat. It basically lets you stay concious when you reach the negatives (-9 through -1hp) where you would otherwise fall unconcious. I find this as a dangerous position to be in. Generally, if you drop unconcious due to hit point loss, the DM is kind enough to stop picking on you and aim the evil NPCs at the rest of the party, giving you a couple rounds to either self-stabilize or give time for a party member to get to you and help stabilize you. Now if you have Diehard feat and get dropped to -1hps and you are still up and fighting, the enemy will continue to see you as a threat and the next attack while most likely cause you to die.

I think the intent of the Diehard feat is to give you that one last chance to heal or get out of harms way, but more often then not, it ends up getting you killed. IMXP anyway...

Sorry to go off on a slight tangent, but just wanted to present an alternative to help w/ your hp dilemna as well as a possible reason why you might not want to choose it.

 

[blargney the second]

Uh... that just means that without those extra HP they would already be dead before their rage ended. How's living a few more rounds a liability, exactly?

Low AC class + even lower AC when raging + power attacking monsters + fleeting delusions of toughness = dead PC.

Temporary hps really would be a better way of modeling the toughness thing.
-blarg

 

[Elethiomel]

Low AC class + even lower AC when raging + power attacking monsters + fleeting delusions of toughness = dead PC.

Temporary hps really would be a better way of modeling the toughness thing.
-blarg

DR represents the toughness thing. The extra HP represents "I'm so frickin' angry I'll fight on past the point where I should have died."

 

[Vegepygmy]

Low AC class + even lower AC when raging + power attacking monsters + fleeting delusions of toughness = dead PC.

But you see, after a few dead PCs, most players learn that that last component is indeed the fatal "flaw in the concept."

You're tougher, not invincible. Act accordingly.

 

[frankthedm]

DR represents the toughness thing. The extra HP represents "I'm so frickin' angry I'll fight on past the point where I should have died."

Exactly. Barbarians fight until AFTER they are dead.