D&D 5E Re-gripping your weapon uses an object interaction?


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James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
i'm assuming you calculated this by averaging the difference between one-handing and two-handing a longsword for comparing against the greatsword?
Yeah so, longsword is 4.5 average damage one-handed (6.5 with duelist style), longsword is 5.5 average damage two-handed, and the greatsword is 7 average damage.

I know a lot of people look at the maximum damage to see how effective their attacks are, but even in this case, the numbers aren't exactly that much different: 8 damage for one-handed longsword, 10 damage with duelist style, 10 damage two-handed vs. 12 damage greatsword.

It's not the weapon that's really doing the damage for melee characters, but the special abilities, fighting styles, feats, and their Strength score, so fiddly rulings like this don't really "balance" anything. It might effect your verisimilitude, but I put this in the same camp as forcing Clerics, who are intended to use shields to survive in melee with lower hit points so they can use their touch spells, who are also supposed to smack things with a blunt instrument when conserving spell slots*, to take a (optional!) feat with Warcaster, just so they aren't stuck in this endless loop of sheathe weapon, cast spell, unsheathe weapon, melee attack, which wrecks my verisimilitude (because just think about what that would look like, in reality, with a guy readying and unreadying his weapon every 6 seconds), just so the Cleric can't make an opportunity attack every now and then.

*Sure, Xanathar's gave us Toll the Dead, but from my experience with poison spray on my Yuan-Ti, give me an attack roll cantrip over a saving throw one any day. Especially on a Cleric, who has reasons to have ability scores other than a maxed-out Wisdom.
 



James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
I don't actually have Tasha's yet, lol, so that's a new one for me. And here I thought I'd learned everything in the book by osmosis from hearing people gripe about it on the forums!
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
I don't actually have Tasha's yet, lol, so that's a new one for me. And here I thought I'd learned everything in the book by osmosis from hearing people gripe about it on the forums!
If he's talking about what I think he's talking about they are more like thematically appropriate versions of the rod of the pact keeper plus a mundane sprllbook focus item
. If not I can't think of anything in tcoe that has any significant overlap with the old implements. I don't think it's something that you missed.
 

James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
If he's talking about what I think he's talking about they are more like thematically appropriate versions of the rod of the pact keeper plus a mundane sprllbook focus item
. If not I can't think of anything in tcoe that has any significant overlap with the old implements. I don't think it's something that you missed.
Oh if it's just more magic items, then yeah, I can't really count those. I mean it's nice, sure, but until the game changes to making magic items core, or giving DM's better guidance about how or when to let players acquire them, I really can't call that a plus to the game overall.

You can't count on an optional subsystem as a player.
 

we got those in Tasha's for every class, so that's something
I don't actually have Tasha's yet, lol, so that's a new one for me. And here I thought I'd learned everything in the book by osmosis from hearing people gripe about it on the forums!
If he's talking about what I think he's talking about they are more like thematically appropriate versions of the rod of the pact keeper plus a mundane sprllbook focus item
. If not I can't think of anything in tcoe that has any significant overlap with the old implements. I don't think it's something that you missed.
Yeah, I'm afraid I have to side with Tetrasodium on this one: the magic foci in Tasha's are at best only a pale shadow of 4e's implements. They're all class-specific and have one daily benefit, e.g. the Bloodwell Vial (a Sorcerer focus) lets you regain 5 spell points once a day, while the Amulet of the Devout gives you one free usage of Channel Divinity per day. (AFAICT, all of the items are reusable at dawn specifically.)

By comparison to 4e implements, these are...shall we say, rather thinner.
 


James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
Yeah, I'm afraid I have to side with Tetrasodium on this one: the magic foci in Tasha's are at best only a pale shadow of 4e's implements. They're all class-specific and have one daily benefit, e.g. the Bloodwell Vial (a Sorcerer focus) lets you regain 5 spell points once a day, while the Amulet of the Devout gives you one free usage of Channel Divinity per day. (AFAICT, all of the items are reusable at dawn specifically.)

By comparison to 4e implements, these are...shall we say, rather thinner.
But even then, they would be fine if anyone could guarantee they could acquire one. Unfortunately, that's not how the game works, so it's just one of those things you can wish you had, but might not ever get.

I bet they require attunement too!

Why WotC keeps publishing magic items when they basically told DM's "hey use 'em if you want, but don't blame us if they destroy your game, lol!" sometimes feels like a big kid taunting a little kid with a piece of candy he can't reach.
 


But even then, they would be fine if anyone could guarantee they could acquire one. Unfortunately, that's not how the game works, so it's just one of those things you can wish you had, but might not ever get.

I bet they require attunement too!
They do require attunement, yes. That's what makes them actually class-specific, the attunement line specifies that it has to be attuned by someone of a specific class.

Why WotC keeps publishing magic items when they basically told DM's "hey use 'em if you want, but don't blame us if they destroy your game, lol!" sometimes feels like a big kid taunting a little kid with a piece of candy he can't reach.
Being rather more charitable than I normally would be: because the people who run things now are not the people who ran things back during the Next Playtest, and the change in management has resulted in somewhat different priorities. The people in charge now contributed to 5e, so they aren't going to completely reinvent the wheel. But they seem to have several different ideas compared to the people who were in charge previously.
 

Horwath

Hero
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As we can see from iconic D&D character(Regdar), you can actually hold 2 heavy weapons at once(greatsword+longbow)

And I would say that dropping one and then either grip greatsword or preparing to grab an arrow would be same free action(or non action)
 

James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
View attachment 254171

As we can see from iconic D&D character(Regdar), you can actually hold 2 heavy weapons at once(greatsword+longbow)

And I would say that dropping one and then either grip greatsword or preparing to grab an arrow would be same free action(or non action)
Although the concept of dropping weapons on the ground always struck me as a little bizarre. I mean, weapons are valuable, who would really treat them that way?
 

James Gasik

Legend
Supporter
Actually, a post in the Lets Read: Monsters of the Multiverse thread actually gave me another reason to hate these sorts of interactions- monsters.

Often, you have a humanoid enemy who has a bow, a sword, and a shield. Making it a nightmare to switch weapons in combat! I can only imagine trying to run an encounter for a "cleric" type enemy with melee attacks and spell attacks, with my players constantly asking "hey, can he make an opportunity attack this turn? He just cast a spell!".
 

Horwath

Hero
Although the concept of dropping weapons on the ground always struck me as a little bizarre. I mean, weapons are valuable, who would really treat them that way?
Dropping weapons from your hand, on average 1m height is nothing comparing to stress they receive in battle.

Hitting full force at someones armor or shield or another blade blocking yours, hitting a dungeon pillar when your target dodges?

yes, you should not drop your sword if it can be helped, but usually it's no damage to the weapon.
 

Horwath

Hero
Actually, a post in the Lets Read: Monsters of the Multiverse thread actually gave me another reason to hate these sorts of interactions- monsters.

Often, you have a humanoid enemy who has a bow, a sword, and a shield. Making it a nightmare to switch weapons in combat! I can only imagine trying to run an encounter for a "cleric" type enemy with melee attacks and spell attacks, with my players constantly asking "hey, can he make an opportunity attack this turn? He just cast a spell!".
YES! Yes, he can!
For every additional question about that, "cleric monster" gets additional AOO per round.
 

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