re-revised Sorcerer

[Ferrix]

Your character list is growing quickly.

Yep... need real game, PbP slow thus lots of games to compensate.

 

[Thanee]

I don't think that earlier spell level access is that great. Might be better if the psion is included in the balance of classes, but just between a wizard and a sorcerer (especially non-specialists), the sorc is just too good, now.

The above is a way to have the sorcerer keep up with the XPH psion, which I think it achieves.

You probably agree with me then, that the XPH psion is just too good...

Spell merging is too powerful. High-level spells often easily trump the lower ones, and if you just require the sum of spell levels to be equal, it's way to cheap.

I just made it to resemble the psions flexibility somewhat. I'm quite aware how powerful this ability is.

What kind of limits would be ok? Full-round action was something I thought about. Making it a metamagic feat (and thus having all spellcasters access to this ability). Anything else?

Especially if you insert e.g. a Ring of Wizardry I into the equation.

Hey, at least a way to make that ring of wizardry useful!

What about some kind of "raw metamagic" mechanic? By expending spells slots of the same level, you can add a metamagic feat for free.

Hmm... I think that is in UA already.

The number of additional slots equals the metamagic level increase, e.g. for just four 3rd-level slots, you get a maximized fireball. Certainly not that overpowered, as the combined damage of four normal fireballs should turn out to be better.

Yeah, and regular maximize is also better then (unless you can't do it yet, but then the slots are too valuable still), or a rod of metamagic.

Spell merging basically is just one step away from a spell point system, which again is good for bumping the sorc up to the psion, but leaves the wizard behind.

Well, I'm assuming (which I don't agree with, BTW), that psion and wizard are equal in power.

Most people on this board say, that the spontaneous casting of the sorcerer (and psion likewise) is not as powerful as WotC thinks it is. Well, it's certainly hard to compare with the unlimited spell access the wizard has.

I'd rather go for d6 hit dice.

Yep, that is something that would work, too, but I wanted to stay as close as possible to the original sorcerer.

What about familiars? It always kinda bothered me, that both Wizard and Sorcerer have different approaches to magic, but have the same kind of supernatural bond to animals? I thought about restricting familiars to sorcerers, but that Necromancer just needs an Imp on his shoulder. Well, he still could have access to Improved Familiar, he just wouldn't get the animal freebies.

I like familiars and it really fits to the sorcerer.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Maybe you should look into my other approach to balance psion and sorcerer... the re-revised psion.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Hey I thought the psionic equivalencies were Psion/Wizard and Wilder/Sorcerer? Am I wrong? Doesn't the wilder get few powers and can surge them (more powerful, spend fewer points at risk of betting drained)?

 

[Old Gumphrey]

What do you think?

I think every one of my players would be a sorcerer if I allowed this.

 

[mhd]

I just made it to resemble the psions flexibility somewhat. I'm quite aware how powerful this ability is.

What kind of limits would be ok? Full-round action was something I thought about. Making it a metamagic feat (and thus having all spellcasters access to this ability). Anything else?

Hmm, how would wizards access this feat? Spontaneous 'burning' of memorized spells? Or just fragmented memorizing?
A full round sounds good, channeling this kind of energy should be at least as bothersome as other metamagics.

Maybe time is a good way to enable this feat for wizards, without making it useless. Sorcerers are able to use it spontaneously, but wizards need the usual 15 minutes for putting a higher-level spell in lower-level slots. Thus both enjoy the same versatility, but sorcs just do it way faster.

What prerequisities would you imagine for this feat? Available at mid-levels, so a Sor5 would be able to rain down quite some fireballs?

P.S. Maybe you should look into my other approach to balance psion and sorcerer... the re-revised psion.

Yeah, did that. It's just that I think that the Sorcerer needs a facelift even without the XPH, and your approach is one of the less background-laden. Even with wizards alone, it should be boosted...

 

[Thanee]

Hey I thought the psionic equivalencies were Psion/Wizard and Wilder/Sorcerer?

It's probably meant that way, but the psion works exactly like the sorcerer (just with all the psionic differences applied), while the wilder is basically taking this one step further. There is no real equivalent to the wizard (i.e. unlimited spell knowledge, but preparation needed) in the XPH.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I think every one of my players would be a sorcerer if I allowed this.

And now everyone is going to be psion?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hardhead]

Personally, I've played in a campaign where Quicken Spell was usable by Sorcerers. It was certainly good, but not even to the "really powerful" level, much less the "broken" level. But then, it was a one-person example, so it may not mean anything.

I just want to mention that, because of the Psionic Focus, Psions can't Quicken powers except every other round (unless they spend a feat for Psionic Focus). So if you're reverse-engineering, you might want to keep that in mind.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm, how would wizards access this feat? Spontaneous 'burning' of memorized spells? Or just fragmented memorizing?

While memorizing, since it will be a metamagic feat then and wizards use it like that.

A full round sounds good, channeling this kind of energy should be at least as bothersome as other metamagics.

Only for sorcerers (and bards), tho, if it were a metamagic feat.

What prerequisities would you imagine for this feat? Available at mid-levels, so a Sor5 would be able to rain down quite some fireballs?

Now, that's a good question.

My reasoning behind the ability (and while it is pretty unrestricted), was this.

There are limites (i.e. in the psionic system) to prevent people from splitting a high level spell/power into several low level ones. In the case of psionics, it's the scaling/augmenting, which prevents this "abuse" of their flexibility.

The opposite is not true, however, small portions can be added together to form a larger part (i.e. higher level power).

So it is obviously assumed, and many comments also point into this direction, that while quickly burning one's slots to gain higher results in shorter time is surely powerful, the cost of running dry on spells is also considerable and balances this just fine.

This is the arcane equivalent of that sub-ability of psionics.

Yeah, did that. It's just that I think that the Sorcerer needs a facelift even without the XPH, and your approach is one of the less background-laden. Even with wizards alone, it should be boosted...

Ok.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kerrick]

I like it. It's kind of like our sorcerer. What we did was give them bonus metamagic feats, as the wizard, but we restricted the wizard's bonus feats to item creation only. Also, the sorcerer can specialize in one element. And finally, sorcerers can learn new spells in one of two ways: the easier (and less evil) way is to develop them (we don't want to penalize those who make their own spells, fill up all the slots, and then not have room for other spells; any custom spells are over and above the normal allotment). The second way is to perform a ritual whereby you rip the spells from another being's mind. We also gave them a few minor powers to make them more distinct from a wizard, like the ability to create a witchlight - a small globe that sheds light in a 5-foot radius - as long as you have at least one spell level open. And of course more skills.