re:spells, replacing one energy type w/another What do you think?

[Li Shenron]

Within the guidelines about researching new spells, I think that to research a spell which is exactly the same as an existing energy-based damage spell (btw, Force is not an energy type) except that the energy type is changed, makes for the perfect example of the easiest way to research a new spell. I would see absolutely no problem in allowing such a thing. Possibly, I may not like very much the result in case an area shape looks quite odd with the new element, but it would be a very minor thing.

Energy Substitution lets you change any energy-based spell's type into the chosen new type (you take ES once for a single type, e.g. EG(Fire) let you change any energy spell you know into Fire type), without altering the spell's level and with no need to learn a new spell.

So, either spend a feat and then choose every time if you prefer to prepare a Cone of Cold or Cone of Fire, or directly ask your DM if you can learn CoF instead of CoC (you won't know both then).

 

[Zhure]

An NPC fire-themed Sorcerer in my current campaign has done a lot of spell research.

Frain's Fire Arrow (like Melf's Acid Arrow)
Fire Bolt (like magic missile, but 1d6+1, Reflex for half).
Brightness (like darkness, but with the special effect it's realllllllly bright and negates any darkness spells of that level or lower restoring everything to it's normal lighting conditions)
Ray of Fire (like Ray of Frost).

etc

Greg

 

[Voadam]

Sonic is more powerful than the other core energy types. Almost no core creatures have sonic resistance or immunity while the others are relatively common. Among the core spells sonic damage is usually less than a comparable level other element spell (shout for example). This gets thrown out in T&B where sonic substitution is as easy as fire, and sonic orb does as much damage as fire or acid orb.

Force is its own descriptor but not an elemental energy type, sort of like negative energy is different as well. With the affecting incorporeal and no immunities or resistances (except for shield spell against magic missiles) it is generally more powerful than standard energy attacks like fire, cold, or electricity.

 

[bret]

Sonic is more powerful than the other core energy types. Almost no core creatures have sonic resistance or immunity while the others are relatively common. Among the core spells sonic damage is usually less than a comparable level other element spell (shout for example). This gets thrown out in T&B where sonic substitution is as easy as fire, and sonic orb does as much damage as fire or acid orb.

Keep in mind that very few creatures are susceptable to Sonic energy as well. With Fire and Cold, there are a lot of creatures that are more susceptable to that type of damage.

I'm not saying Sonic Substitution is balanced -- still haven't decided for myself. I'm just saying that you have to keep in mind that in most cases you will not be getting bonus damage from sonics.

 

[coyote6]

Keep in mind that very few creatures are susceptable to Sonic energy as well.

And (IIRC) silence stops almost all sonic damage, completely. No other energy type has a second level spell that gives everyone in a 15 foot radius nigh-immunity.

 

[Sejs]

Silence (Clr 2) negates any sonic damage. Would kinda suck when your Sonic Meteor Swarm gets taken down by a 3rd level cleric.

Keep in mind that very few creatures are susceptable to Sonic energy as well.

Destrachan (+4 sv Sonics), All Formians (Sonic Resistance 20), All Golems (but that kinda goes without saying..), Rakshasa (Immune to all spells under 9th level), Slaadi (Sonic Resistance 5), Will-o-Wisp (Only affected by Protection From/Magic Circle against Evil/Chaos, Magic Missle, and Maze).

Not commenting either way, just offering the list of sonic damage resistant creatures in the MM.

 

[Plane Sailing]

{rant on}
I think that energy substitution is the most poorly thought out and implemented feat that I've seen in any supplement. Quite apart from the huge advantage in being able to tailor spells to metagame for certain creatures resistances at no cost in spell level, the most ridiculous thing is that it doesn't change the special effects... thus a sonic substituted "burning hands" might set inflammables alight, an acid substituted "great shout" can shatter glass things.

It is partly the fault of 3e which doesn't treat different energy types consistently (in the way that, say, "Elements of Magic" by Natural 20 Press does).

The energy substitution feat just flies so far in the face of all logic and internal consistency for magic it is unbelievable.

{rant off}


IMC and IMO the way that different elements in spells should be handled is via spell research for new spells. The existence of special effects for many energy spells indicates that they are not merely different flavours of the same energy which should be switched around at a whim.

{rant really off this time!}

I imagine that my opinion doesn't run with the crowd in this instance, but you did inquire after opinions!

Cheers

 

[Spatula]

And (IIRC) silence stops almost all sonic damage, completely. No other energy type has a second level spell that gives everyone in a 15 foot radius nigh-immunity.

But since Silence also negates most spellcasting, you can be 99% sure that mages and clerics aren't going to be protected by it.

Keep in mind that very few creatures are susceptable to Sonic energy as well. With Fire and Cold, there are a lot of creatures that are more susceptable to that type of damage.

Not that many (any?) creatures are susceptable to acid or lightning, either, but there sure are a bunch that have resistances to those energy types. Acid less so than lightning as I recall, but acid resistance is still more common than sonic resistance.

 

[Spatula]

I think it would have been cool if Energy Substitution took the different side effects of the energy types into account - say, sonic substitution lowers the damage die by 1 or more "steps" but has a chance to deafen the target, instead of the spell's normal side-effects. But it's simple enough to come up with some flimsy rationale to justify the effects (a sonic burning hands starts fires due to intense air friction generated by the sound waves), or to rule that the non-damage side effects just don't happen. Just because the feat description doesn't address this relatively minor issue doesn't make it the most poorly designed feat around, not when there are so many useless or vaguely-worded feats to be found just in WOTC's classbooks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But it's simple enough to come up with some flimsy rationale to justify the effects (a sonic burning hands starts fires due to intense air friction generated by the sound waves)...

Ooh, do it for Freezing Hands!

-Hyp.