Reach and AOO's

[RithTheAwakener]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but I do not have access to the search function.

A fighter in our campaign has a spiked chain, with combat expertise, improved trip, combat reflexes, the works, in order to control the local battlefield with AoO's and trips.

As far as I know, an enemy moving from one threatened square to another (within the 10ft reach of the spiked chain) provokes an AoO. To my knowledge, that is always the case. But under 5ft step, it says it does not provoke an AoO. It leaves me confused, as there is an "always" and a "never" case happening while a 5ft step occurs within someones threatened space.

So, which occurs? AoO or no?

 

[Theroc]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but I do not have access to the search function.

A fighter in our campaign has a spiked chain, with combat expertise, improved trip, combat reflexes, the works, in order to control the local battlefield with AoO's and trips.

As far as I know, an enemy moving from one threatened square to another (within the 10ft reach of the spiked chain) provokes an AoO. To my knowledge, that is always the case. But under 5ft step, it says it does not provoke an AoO. It leaves me confused, as there is an "always" and a "never" case happening while a 5ft step occurs within someones threatened space.

So, which occurs? AoO or no?

5' Step is the exception to the Always of the movement, if I understand correctly.

 

[Starbuck_II]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but I do not have access to the search function.

A fighter in our campaign has a spiked chain, with combat expertise, improved trip, combat reflexes, the works, in order to control the local battlefield with AoO's and trips.

As far as I know, an enemy moving from one threatened square to another (within the 10ft reach of the spiked chain) provokes an AoO. To my knowledge, that is always the case. But under 5ft step, it says it does not provoke an AoO. It leaves me confused, as there is an "always" and a "never" case happening while a 5ft step occurs within someones threatened space.

So, which occurs? AoO or no?

5 foot step uses up move action so think of it as a very slow/careful walking.
Normal walking is alot faster, but the chance to provoke is possible.

 

[NewJeffCT]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but I do not have access to the search function.

A fighter in our campaign has a spiked chain, with combat expertise, improved trip, combat reflexes, the works, in order to control the local battlefield with AoO's and trips.

As far as I know, an enemy moving from one threatened square to another (within the 10ft reach of the spiked chain) provokes an AoO. To my knowledge, that is always the case. But under 5ft step, it says it does not provoke an AoO. It leaves me confused, as there is an "always" and a "never" case happening while a 5ft step occurs within someones threatened space.

So, which occurs? AoO or no?

Also, remember, moving out of a threatened square will only provoke one AoO. So, if BBEG moves across the spiked chain fighters reach area, he will only provoke one AoO when he leaves his 1st threatened square, no matter how many more threatened squares he moves through that round. So, his movement would only provoke one AoO no matter how many the fighter is allowed each round.

 

[RithTheAwakener]

Oh interesting. I was under the impression that a 5ft step was a free action, but could not be done in the same round that a regular movement was taken, instead of a move action.

Also, remember, moving out of a threatened square will only provoke one AoO. So, if BBEG moves across the spiked chain fighters reach area, he will only provoke one AoO when he leaves his 1st threatened square, no matter how many more threatened squares he moves through that round. So, his movement would only provoke one AoO no matter how many the fighter is allowed each round.

So it's when they leave the square, not when moving into a different threatened area? So if they leave a square at the edge of a 10ft reach, and leave the threatened range, that still causes an AoO?

Also, assuming they provoke an AoO by moving, and get tripped from that AoO, the subsequent action can be used to standup, which also causes an AoO, which can be used to trip again?

 

[Elethiomel]

Oh interesting. I was under the impression that a 5ft step was a free action, but could not be done in the same round that a regular movement was taken, instead of a move action.

Your interpretation is correct. A 5 foot step does not use up a move action, it only prevents other movement. It also does not provoke attacks of opportunity for movement; as was said above the 5 foot step is the exception to the "provoke from leaving a threatened square" rule.

So it's when they leave the square, not when moving into a different threatened area? So if they leave a square at the edge of a 10ft reach, and leave the threatened range, that still causes an AoO?

Yes, provided they do not use the "withdraw" action, which excempts the first square they move out of from AoOs provoked by movement (but only the first square).

Also, assuming they provoke an AoO by moving, and get tripped from that AoO, the subsequent action can be used to standup, which also causes an AoO, which can be used to trip again?

No. AoOs take place before the action that provoke them (so when someone leaves a threatened square, they can be attacked even though the movement takes them out of the reach of whoever attacks them, for instance). The AoO provoked from standing up techincally takes place while the target is still prone; you cannot trip an opponent that is already prone.

However, if they should start to move away from the square in which they stood up, they will provoke an additional attack of opportunity (keeping in mind the exceptions mentioned above) which can be used to trip.

 

[RithTheAwakener]

Excellent. Thank you all very much!

 

[NewJeffCT]

So it's when they leave the square, not when moving into a different threatened area? So if they leave a square at the edge of a 10ft reach, and leave the threatened range, that still causes an AoO?

Also, assuming they provoke an AoO by moving, and get tripped from that AoO, the subsequent action can be used to standup, which also causes an AoO, which can be used to trip again?

it's when they leave the threatened square - unless they take a 5' step. So, if BBEG has a reach weapon and uses his move action to close to 10' from the PC and then attack the PC with his reach weapon, the BBEG could then take a 5 foot step to move to 15 feet away from the PC and not provoke an AoO. Or, he could move to within 5 feet of the PC with a 5 foot step and also not provoke.

However, if the same BBEG did not have a reach weapon and needed to be within 5 feet to attack in melee, the BBEG would provoke an AoO when he closes from 10 feet (a threatened square) to 5 feet because he just left the square 10 feet away.

Also, if the spiked chain PC was 20 feet in front of low hit point wizard PC, the BBEG could charge the wizard through the spiked chain PC's threatened squares +10 feet, then +5 feet, then -5 feet and then -10 feet (all threatened squares) and would only provoke one AoO for that entire sequence. The act of charging is one action that can provoke only one AoO per PC. Of course, if the BBEG did something else to provoke, he could get another AoO from the PC.

If the BBEG's minion then decided to follow his boss and also charge the wizard, that minion would then also provoke one AoO while moving through spiked chain PC's threatened area (assuming the PC has Combat Reflexes and the necessary Dex bonus)

 

[irdeggman]

5 foot step uses up move action so think of it as a very slow/careful walking.
Normal walking is alot faster, but the chance to provoke is possible.

Not really - a 5 ft step uses up all of your movement for the round. So you could not substitute a movement for the remaining standard action.

 

[Elethiomel]

So, if BBEG has a reach weapon and uses his move action to close to 10' from the PC and then attack the PC with his reach weapon, the BBEG could then take a 5 foot step to move to 15 feet away from the PC and not provoke an AoO. Or, he could move to within 5 feet of the PC with a 5 foot step and also not provoke.

Not on the same round, he couldn't. You can't take a 5 foot step on the same round in which you move using your move and/or standard action.