Reach Weapons, Monks, Whirlwind Attack

[The Souljourner]

I have an idea for a character - Monk 2/Fighter 2/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 10 (eventually). I want the character to use a reach weapon, with the monk attacks filling in for when he needs to attack guys next to him, with the added bonus of the wisdom to AC given that he can't wear armor and cast spells without spell failure.

All to the good.

Some questions - what is a good reach weapon? I don't need to use a spiked chain, since I have monk attacks for non-reach attacks. I'd like to be using improved trip and combat reflexes to keep people from closing with me, so it should be a weapon that can trip. I think the Guisarme fits the bill perfectly, but let me know if there's one I missed... BTW, what's up with no weapons having +2 to trip anymore?!

Second Question - how does whirlwind attack work with this guy? I can make an attack at everyone within reach... I can reach both 5' away and 10' away but with different weapons. There doesn't seem to be a clear answer here.

Edit - 3.5 rules, of course.

-The Souljourner

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Some rapids thoughts:

1) I'm not sure which method of ability generation you're using, but you'll need godlike stats, IMO, for this to be a viable character. High Str for fighting / tripping. High Dex not to get killed. High Con to have a decent amount of hp. High int for spells. High Wis for it to have an effect on your AC. High Cha... well, no, not High Cha.

2) When you whirlwind, you do it with 1 weapon. You can either whirlwind on everyone at a 10' range (with the reach weapon) or at a 5' range (with your circle kick of doom).

Anyways, it still can be a fun character to play.

AR

 

[thegreatbuddha]

You may want to invest in Ambidexterity & TWF, since you won't threaten the 5ft around you unless you take the TWF penalties. If you are TWF and you WW attack, you will get an attack on anything within 10ft of you, but otherwise you are limited to everything within 5ft or everything 5-10ft away.

Also look into Movement Check from The Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide. It allows you to halt an opponent's movement when you connect with an AoO. That'll save you from having to make all those opposed trip rolls.

 

[Dursk Starkfire]

You may want to invest in Ambidexterity & TWF, since you won't threaten the 5ft around you unless you take the TWF penalties. If you are TWF and you WW attack, you will get an attack on anything within 10ft of you, but otherwise you are limited to everything within 5ft or everything 5-10ft away.

What are you talking about? He's a monk. Monks threaten while unarmed. No TWF or Ambidexterity required. It's all under "Improved Unarmed Strike".

Improved Unarmed Strike:
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed - that is, armed opponents do not get attacks of opportunity when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an opportunity attack against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.

The last part, starting from the "However" implies that you now threaten and can carry through on AoO's.

 

[The Souljourner]

Luckily godlike stats is exactly what I'll have for this campaign. Ability generation is one 24, one 10, 4 @ 10+2d6.

Now as for the assertion that you only use one weapon while using whirlwind attack... I don't see that in my copy of the 3.5 PHB. I see that you "make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach." No where does it say you use only one weapon.

The question is part of who is "within reach". I can reach guys next to me with a kick, and I can reach guys 10' away with the guisarme.

This goes for attacks of opportunity as well... though I'm not exactly sure how that works. Can you threaten with a weapon and not attack with it? I would assume you can, which would mean you can take attacks of opportunity with it.

-The Souljourner

 

[Caliban]

What are you talking about? He's a monk. Monks threaten while unarmed. No TWF or Ambidexterity required. It's all under "Improved Unarmed Strike".

Improved Unarmed Strike:
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed - that is, armed opponents do not get attacks of opportunity when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an opportunity attack against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.

The last part, starting from the "However" implies that you now threaten and can carry through on AoO's.

Sure you threaten with your unarmed attacks... when you are unarmed.

If you are wielding a weapon, you are not unarmed, and threaten with that weapon, not your unarmed attacks.

If you want to threaten with both unarmed attacks and a weapon at the same time, you would be using two types of weapons at the same time, and would incur all the two weapon fighting penalties.

 

[FrankTrollman]

When you have a reach weapon and monk unarmed attacks - you threaten at both 5' and 10'. So what?

This is still massively inferior to just having a Spiked Chain. It does the same thing with only one feat invested instead of all these funky class levels. Further, 3.5 Whirlwind is craptastic, as it does not cumulate with Cleave, Improved Trip, Haste, or even Combat Reflexes. Those other abilities will consistently give you more attacks than Whirlwind will - and they all cumulate with each other. There's no reason to have Whirlwind - so the fact that this "combo" would in fact work with it is irrelevent.

Now, why on earth would you be a Monk/Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight? That's just dumb.

You are looking at being a 20th level character with a BAB of 16 and a caster level of 15 - which means that you are going to fight like a creature so low level that 4 of them would be required to be an even match for one of the members of your party - and cast spells like someone weaker than that. You'll never be able to penetrate the SR of any hardcore enemies you face, and your close combat skills won't be enough to fit in a ziplock bag.

This character is trying to do a lot of stuff and failing miserably in all of it - Fighter/Wizards should be a viable archetype, but even with the Eldritch Knight they just aren't.

If you want to hit things and cast spells so much, just be a Cleric and take EWP: Spiked Chain.

-Frank

 

[Darklone]

When you have a reach weapon and monks unarmed attacks, you should at least take TWF penalties if you want to use both in one round.

Otherwise, would you allow a mounted combatant to wield a lance and a bastard sword at once, being able to use each of them without penalty?

As for that build: You need a lot of buff spells to be a second rank fighter and you'll never reach caster goodness. But I disagree that it can't be a viable char in many campaigns. Especially if you already have a spellcaster and a pure fighterclass in your group, this kind of character might prove more valuable than a singleclass dude.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Now as for the assertion that you only use one weapon while using whirlwind attack... I don't see that in my copy of the 3.5 PHB. I see that you "make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach." No where does it say you use only one weapon.

I interpret this part pretty much as getting a hit with a single weapon (or unarmed strike, of course). YMMV

AR

 

[The Souljourner]

Now, why on earth would you be a Monk/Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight? That's just dumb.

Well, let me see... monk for 3 free feats, +3 to all my saves, and adding my wisdom bonus to my AC. Fighter for two free feats, the BAB, and half the requirement for the prestige class. Wizard is pretty self explanatory.

You are looking at being a 20th level character with a BAB of 16 and a caster level of 15 .... You'll never be able to penetrate the SR of any hardcore enemies you face, and your close combat skills won't be enough to fit in a ziplock bag.

I don't intend on penetrating spell resistance on much of anything. That's not the point. Not every caster is a blaster mage, Frank. Self buffs, utility spells, and yes some damage spells against guys without SR. I will be able to cast 8th level spells.... that's almost as good as the 20th level wizard, if you're not trying to penetrate spell resistance.

As for my fighting ability, I'll have plenty of defensive spells, and if I want to break out the beatstick, I can cast Tenser's Transformation and be just as good as the fighter. I will have 16(!) feats by 18th level, which is only two fewer than a straight fighter. My BAB will be slightly behind, but it'll be slightly better than a cleric's. I can polymorph (even quicken it if I want) into something bashtastic... plus I will be a hell of a lot less boring than a straight fighter type. I think that's well worth it.

This character is trying to do a lot of stuff and failing miserably in all of it - Fighter/Wizards should be a viable archetype, but even with the Eldritch Knight they just aren't.

If you want to hit things and cast spells so much, just be a Cleric and take EWP: Spiked Chain.

But I don't want to be a fightery cleric. That's boring. Been there, done that, want to do something else.

I think this is a viable alternative. No I won't have the pure hitting power of the straight fighter or the pure spellcasting power of a straight wizard, but I'll be a good second string at both.

I interpret this part pretty much as getting a hit with a single weapon (or unarmed strike, of course).

It mentions a single melee attack. It doesn't say anything about weapons. Attacking with a reach weapon is a melee attack. Attacking with an unarmed strike is a melee attack.


-The Souljourner