D&D 5E Reactions and Multi Attacks

[redrick]

I find it counter-intuitive that a master of combat class like the fighter is less effective with a reaction versus a class like a wizard that can already be interrupted via concentration.

It is one of those game-isms that place martial classes within strict bounds but give casters a pass.

The restrictions on the caster are stricter. If your concentration is broken, you lose the spell, meaning the chance to act, and you lose the spell slot. If the fighter gets hit before his trigger goes off, he can still take his readied action, up until the point at which he's knocked unconscious.

The difference is that the Wizard's action is a single, discrete action, whereas the fighter's action consists of multiple sub-actions. (The extra attacks.) How would you "fairly" restrict the caster (beyond the restriction of concentration, which isn't placed on the fighter)? Would you say, "when readying an action, cantrips do not scale with level and spells cannot be cast in a higher level spell slot." What about high level spells? Now the Wizard has the burden of concentration and a super gamey damage reduction on top of it.

The round is a span of time. Over that time, you can take your action. When a character readies an action, they are effectively counting out rest beats. When they could be in there, swinging and slashing, they are holding, and waiting for their moment. Presumably because there is some advantage to doing so. The Wizard does the same thing, but the spell is actually cast on initiative, and then held through those rest beats until the opportunity presents itself to release. That's why the restriction on the fighter is "less stuff" and the restriction on the wizard is "concentration, loss of spell slot". They're different restrictions, but they both have their consequences. They both make sense narratively. And how often do you see Wizards "winning" combat through the use of readied spells?

 

[SuperZero]

Over that time, you can take your action. When a character readies an action, they are effectively counting out rest beats. When they could be in there, swinging and slashing, they are holding, and waiting for their moment. Presumably because there is some advantage to doing so. The Wizard does the same thing, but the spell is actually cast on initiative, and then held through those rest beats until the opportunity presents itself to release. That's why the restriction on the fighter is "less stuff" and the restriction on the wizard is "concentration, loss of spell slot". They're different restrictions, but they both have their consequences. They both make sense narratively.

Wow, that does make a lot of narrative sense. It doesn't really apply to actions other than attacking (with Extra Attack) or spellcasting, but I s'pose there's only so many specifics that can be called out.
Okay, I'm sold.

 

[Li Shenron]

So an example would be the party setting up an ambush for some Orcs about to enter a room. The Wizard and the Fighter both roll better than the Orcs. The wizard using is action to ready a web spell as soon as he sees the first one enter the room. Perfectly fine. He retains his ability to cast a good spell in a surprise factor. The Fighter readies his action to attack the first one through the threshold. Again, excellent tactics.

Anyway the example is wrong.

Nobody is readying anything before combat starts.

If they are setting up an ambush, the orcs enter the room, the DM determines if they are surprised (e.g. Perception vs Stealth), in which case the orcs 'skip' the first turn. But surprised or not, the Fighter and the Wizard both get their full round worth of action, because the combat has already started.

 

[Uchawi]

How would you "fairly" restrict the caster (beyond the restriction of concentration, which isn't placed on the fighter)? Would you say, "when readying an action, cantrips do not scale with level and spells cannot be cast in a higher level spell slot." What about high level spells? Now the Wizard has the burden of concentration and a super gamey damage reduction on top of it.

There are problems with the concentration mechanic that is unfair to a caster, where it should apply to all classes to some degree or let the wizard specialize out of it for certain spells. I believe that is a separate discussion. So with reactions it makes sense to me to make it restricted to at-will type actions, whether that is moving, make an attack, or cast a cantrip. That also helps distinguish a warlock between a pure caster, since they are between a pure caster and a martial class.

But overall, with a simple action economy, it is easier to discriminate against martial characters, because with their at-wills they should be able to do more simple things together; if the system is detailed enough to handle it. That hurts them with a system like 5E, when comparing it against a system like 3E or 4E.

 

[Gillywonka]

I would say, you're the DM, do what makes more sense or works for you. If a PC or monster with multi-attack, wins initiative or simply wants to ready an action so he goes later in the round because it makes tactical sense, i'd allow it. I would even let them Delay even though there isnt a Delay action. Do what makes sense and if the rule doesn't support it, change it.