D&D 5E Reactions

[Arial Black]

Where are you getting that it happens between the attack being determined it's a successful hit and the effects being applied?

From the way UD handles what it does handle: damage.

UD must kick in before damage is applied, because if it didn't then the damage would be applied and then some of it would heal. If UD was healing it would be called out as healing in the text so it could interact with other healing rules, and it wouldn't be 'Uncanny Dodge' but 'Uncanny Healing'; not that such an ability would make any sense for a rogue...

It would also make UD unusable if the un-halved damage would leave the rogue at zero hit points, and it doesn't work that way. UD means that the rogue never took half of that damage at all!

Therefore, UD works between 'successful hit' and 'apply effects of hit'.

More to the point, how can UD halve damage that hasn't happened yet?

It certainly cannot halve damage that has already been taken!

 

[Arial Black]

Another thing: we know that the rogue starts to dodge before the attacker connects. The rogue doesn't wait until he's actually been damaged before starting the dodging process.

How do we know?

Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 5th level, when an attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you.

The rogue must be able to see the attack coming so that he can start to dodge it, because seeing the attack coming is how the rogue knows that now is a good time to dodge.

It cannot be that the rogue does nothing until the attack affects him, because if that were the case then he wouldn't need to see the attack coming, or see the attacker at all. Losing some teeth would be all the clue he needed!

 

[Hriston]

Another thing: we know that the rogue starts to dodge before the attacker connects. The rogue doesn't wait until he's actually been damaged before starting the dodging process.

How do we know?



The rogue must be able to see the attack coming so that he can start to dodge it, because seeing the attack coming is how the rogue knows that now is a good time to dodge.

It cannot be that the rogue does nothing until the attack affects him, because if that were the case then he wouldn't need to see the attack coming, or see the attacker at all. Losing some teeth would be all the clue he needed!

Normal dodging of the sort you speak is handled by AC. This is an uncanny, last-minute dodge that turns a hit into a near miss, and can only be used when that hit is close enough to be a certainty. You know what else happens at the last minute? Lightning shoots out of the caster's hand and stops the rogue dead in his tracks. Reaction denied.

 

[Fanaelialae]

There's no reason to say that ID must be a partial dodge only. One of the basic principles in martial arts is how to take a hit, and many of those are reactions after the strike lands to roll with th he impact. You're locking in one description that also results in the answer you like. UD does not have to work as you describe it.

I've heard of "rolling with a punch", but never "rolling with a greataxe". Against deadly attacks, if you don't mitigate by moving out of the way preemptively (even just to cause it to strike a less vital area) you simply won't be able to mitigate the attack at all.

 

[Ovinomancer]

From the way UD handles what it does handle: damage.

UD must kick in before damage is applied, because if it didn't then the damage would be applied and then some of it would heal. If UD was healing it would be called out as healing in the text so it could interact with other healing rules, and it wouldn't be 'Uncanny Dodge' but 'Uncanny Healing'; not that such an ability would make any sense for a rogue...

It would also make UD unusable if the un-halved damage would leave the rogue at zero hit points, and it doesn't work that way. UD means that the rogue never took half of that damage at all!

Therefore, UD works between 'successful hit' and 'apply effects of hit'.



It certainly cannot halve damage that has already been taken!

It changes the damage because that's what it says it does. There doesn't have to be any timing issues. Those are your invention by insisting the game is more granular than it is. If you have to infer granularity because it's not written anywhere else, you should consider that maybe your inference isn't needed. The rules work if you just do what they say and don't imagine a complicated yet hidden set of other rules.

 

[Oofta]

There's no reason to say that UD must be a partial dodge only. One of the basic principles in martial arts is how to take a hit, and many of those are reactions after the strike lands to roll with th he impact. You're locking in one description that also results in the answer you like. UD does not have to work as you describe it.

I agree. It's great if you feel that the caster only hits you "a little bit". It's a perfectly legitimate answer. Another perfectly legitimate answer is that you are being magically tazed and you cannot roll with the blow as you normally would. Or some other additional rule, like throwing in a special check or save to see if it works.

As long as the DM is consistent and logical it works. If it ever actually happens in a real game. Which I've never seen and don't expect to see.

 

[TheWriterFantastic™]

There's no reason to say that ID must be a partial dodge only. One of the basic principles in martial arts is how to take a hit, and many of those are reactions after the strike lands to roll with th he impact. You're locking in one description that also results in the answer you like. UD does not have to work as you describe it.

Actually, taking the hit in martial arts has a lot to do with being aware and knowing that the hit is coming -- typically, you've already prepared yourself to roll with the hit as it comes in -- to equate to 5e actions, you are, in fact, using a reaction that's been triggered by the confirmed hit to interrupt the hit and reduce the damage before it can fully affect you -- a martial artist trained to "take hits" has developed the muscle memory to just react to specific triggers, as they occur, to interrupt the attack.

 

[Hriston]

Actually, taking the hit in martial arts has a lot to do with being aware and knowing that the hit is coming -- typically, you've already prepared yourself to roll with the hit as it comes in -- to equate to 5e actions, you are, in fact, using a reaction that's been triggered by the confirmed hit to interrupt the hit and reduce the damage before it can fully affect you -- a martial artist trained to "take hits" has developed the muscle memory to just react to specific triggers, as they occur, to interrupt the attack.

Imagine that just as the martial artist's muscle memory is about to kick in, she or he is exposed to a 10 milliampere current, which is enough to freeze muscles. That's how the reaction denying effect of shocking grasp works. You may have prepared yourself to "roll with it", but with electricity coursing through your body, you are unable to.

 

[TheWriterFantastic™]

Imagine that just as the martial artist's muscle memory is about to kick in, she or he is exposed to a 10 milliampere current, which is enough to freeze muscles. That's how the reaction denying effect of shocking grasp works. You may have prepared yourself to "roll with it", but with electricity coursing through your body, you are unable to.

Or, imagine that Shocking Grasp actually required the hand to make full contact with the target to actually conduct the electricity -- I get how the "taze" effect of Shocking Grasp works -- but the steps of the attack have different phases: hit, then damage and/or effects. "On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage. In addition to: over, above, or besides. Instead of: In place of, or rather than. The language of "In addition to" and "Instead of" implies that the effects occur at the same time, or subsequent to, the damage. Since Uncanny Dodge interrupts damage to halve it (because it would be healing damage if it occurred subsequent to the damage), and the effect of Shocking Grasp occurs simultaneous to the damage interrupted, the effect must be interrupted as well.

Again, (and my math was slightly off before), Shocking Grasp from a 5th level caster deals 2d8 damage (roughly 9 damage on average, not 6, as I had incorrectly stated before). Even so, the 5th level target burning their reaction for Uncanny Dodge only prevents 4 damage -- an amount that isn't going to break the game, and it prevents the target from using their reactions for anything else for the next round, such as an opportunity attack against the caster, if the caster is trying to flee. The caster is still able to avoid subsequent, more meaningful reactions, such as an opportunity attack, so everyone still has fun.

 

[Valador]

For clarification purposes...

verb (used with object), dodged, dodging.
1.
to elude or evade by a sudden shift of position or by strategy:
to dodge a blow; to dodge a question.

verb (used without object), dodged, dodging.
3.
to move aside or change position suddenly, as to avoid a blow or get behind something.

noun
5.
a quick, evasive movement, as a sudden jump away to avoid a blow or the like.