D&D General Reading Ravenloft the setting


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But I also wonder if maybe Dominic d'Honaire (by dint of the nature and implications of his powers) has become just a little too creepy for modern preferences. (If anyone here has seen Jessica Jones, think of Killgrave.)
You're right of course, and that was something i had taken note of but forgot to actually mention. Dominic is consent issues personified, of course, and even if he can't literally leverage his powers to coerce consent against women he genuinely likes, that still leaves the rest of the population. Like, for instance, his wife. I strongly suspect that's the real reason he's being written out. And to be honest, I don't really mind. I like Dementlieu as a setting a lot, but d'Honaire is one of the less interesting things about it. Mind you, new Dementlieu sounds like it's going to share little with old Dementlieu other than the name, so we'll just have to wait and see at this point. I just hope not too much baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.
 

Remathilis

Legend
You're right of course, and that was something i had taken note of but forgot to actually mention. Dominic is consent issues personified, of course, and even if he can't literally leverage his powers to coerce consent against women he genuinely likes, that still leaves the rest of the population. Like, for instance, his wife. I strongly suspect that's the real reason he's being written out. And to be honest, I don't really mind. I like Dementlieu as a setting a lot, but d'Honaire is one of the less interesting things about it. Mind you, new Dementlieu sounds like it's going to share little with old Dementlieu other than the name, so we'll just have to wait and see at this point. I just hope not too much baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.
The problem is there isn't even much bathwater. Without Dominic, its just 18th century France. As you pointed out, there isn't really anything special or supernatural about the domain. Beyond Dominic's mind-control (and his brainy rival), Dementileu is fairly free of horrors. At least the Gazetteer tried to fill in the blank space with some pre-Revolutionary War class tensions, but even that is kinda flat in a setting where you know Dominic is always* going to succeed because its HIS domain. And even then, any attempt to revolutionize would probably be cut short the minute Dominic learns about it; it only would take a couple "sessions" with Dominic to "convince" the leaders that they were wrong and they should tell thier followers to call off the Bastille-storming.

I'm guessing this is the reason Dementileu never had a module set in/with it; there isn't much to do other than face off against a normal guy whose main horror-inspired power is "save vs. charm".
 

Voadam

Legend
Dominic is one of the Darklords who was a fairly popular design theme in 2e Ravenloft, a behind the scenes power glass canon with tools to narratively and in select circumstances be very powerful, but could be fairly easily destroyed in an actual D&D confrontation. He has at will suggestion and equivalent to a 7th level enchanter power in 2e, but an AC of 10 and 18 hp. A decent sized first level party could potentially take him out in a round or two. This drives the game against letting him be confronted at all in a D&D fashion the way fighting Strahd is the end goal of I6, House of Strahd, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, and Curse of Strahd.

Ivana Boritsi is even more so as a literally zero level human with 8 hp and her only power being deadly kiss poison. Her whole leadership power structure and control is pretty much just fiat narrative. Dominic has his whole curse powers as controlling people and a background of always having been a master manipulator.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Apparently in 5e Dementlieu's Darklord will be a female d'Honaire (a daughter or descendent?) and will be themed around fairy tales.
Extra weird because he canonically has a son. Maybe it's his wife? I would guess they're completely rewriting the domain with no similarity to the original.

Or someone is mind-controlling everyone into enacting fairy tales. Which is weird, but OK.

Where's the Beast of Gevaudan? The Man in the Iron Mask?
The Beast sounds a bit more like Richemulot, but the Man in the Iron Mask would be a great Dementlieu plot. Perhaps an odem or fiend trapped in a mortal body. It can't be exorcised, and killing the body would release it. The Mask traps it in the body so it can't possess anyone else, and anyone it possesses would be a great threat to Dominic.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Dominic is one of the Darklords who was a fairly popular design theme in 2e Ravenloft, a behind the scenes power glass canon with tools to narratively and in select circumstances be very powerful, but could be fairly easily destroyed in an actual D&D confrontation.

Agreed. The "normal dude with a supernatural power" makes sense narratively, but in a game like D&D which has always had combat as a primary facing option, it just lacks... menace. Glass cannons with Save-or-die (literal or metaphoric) don't make satisfying final encounters.
 

Agreed. The "normal dude with a supernatural power" makes sense narratively, but in a game like D&D which has always had combat as a primary facing option, it just lacks... menace. Glass cannons with Save-or-die (literal or metaphoric) don't make satisfying final encounters.
I don't really think the authors where thinking about "how are player characters going to interact with this".

You can just treat it as flavour text, and never have the PCs interact with the darklord.
 


Remathilis

Legend
I don't really think the authors where thinking about "how are player characters going to interact with this".

You can just treat it as flavour text, and never have the PCs interact with the darklord.
There are three types of domains in Ravenloft: the domains that are their darklord and nothing else (Keening, Forlorn), the domains that the darklords are basically non-entities (Dementlieu, Mordent) and the domains that meet in the middle (Barovia, Darkon). I'm not a fan of either extreme, TBH. The darklord-focused domains like Keening are basically adventures told in a narrative rather than explorational format, and the darklord-lite domains like Dementlieu are good neutral space to tell your own stories in, but lack any hook on thier own. I feel Darkon is a good example of the middle: Azalin is always a potential threat, but the domain is so big you can do all sorts of things that don't directly involve him.
 

Agreed. The "normal dude with a supernatural power" makes sense narratively, but in a game like D&D which has always had combat as a primary facing option, it just lacks... menace. Glass cannons with Save-or-die (literal or metaphoric) don't make satisfying final encounters.

I disagree strongly (which probably isn't a surprise :). Definitely Dominic D'Honaire didn't resonate with me, but it had nothing to do with his lack of combat prowess. I thought it was good that some domain lords were physically powerful and enduring, while others were more vulnerable. But D&D is not always about combat. Since 3E things have been highly structured around combat encounters building to a big final encounter, but back in 1E and 2E that really wasn't how the game was played in my experience. There was a whole approach where the goal was to play smart and avoid combat. And when combat did arise, didn't necessarily need to culminate in a big final encounter. With ravenloft in particular that wasn't a setting that was meant to be about fighting. It takes pains to paint itself as not having as much focus on that aspect of play (encounters happen for sure, but a lot of the effort is put into making counters atmospheric and building to a sense of horror).

With characters in Ravenloft who are schemers but physically not powerful, I think the D'honaire entry handles it exactly as one should: he has protectors. As a GM that means you need to play the character smart. He is scheming in the background. Clever players may confront him, they may have to get through his protectors to get to him, or they may find a way around them, but it probably isn't going to be easy to attack the fragile spider in the center of a web like that. I had a Ravenloft campaign featuring a bishop character who wasn't that powerful but had henchmen who served as muscle. he was a terrific villain for a long time. Eventually though the players found out where he was at a vulnerable time (I think he was delivering mass in a church), and they essentially surprised and killed him. He may have had a henchmen or two with him, but their plan was sound and he was taken out, murdered by arrows as he tried to escape through a narrow window. It was a bit of a humiliating end, but my players commented on how great they thought it was for ages after (and one of the reasons was I didn't give the villain plot immunity in the final fight, he died at the fall of the dice, when it happened). And they liked that he had been this looming figure in the background up to that point. I think one failing of D&D in the 90s, and you see this a lot in the Ravenloft line, especially as it goes on (and really in gaming in general at that time) was not embracing the dice as much---fighting against them to get a desired result. I think something similar happens when we prioritize having big final boss encounters (either by fudging dice, stacking the NPC so they last a sufficient time, etc)
 

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