D&D General Reading Ravenloft the setting

[Voadam]

but back in 1E and 2E that really wasn't how the game was played in my experience.

It was in mine. From Gygax's T1 which pretty much culminated with fighting the New Master,and on most modules usually had a climax fight as the culmination.

There was a whole approach where the goal was to play smart and avoid combat. And when combat did arise, didn't necessarily need to culminate in a big final encounter. With ravenloft in particular that wasn't a setting that was meant to be about fighting.

There was strategy in picking your fights as you went in a lot of AD&D, but most led to fights until the story modules started to climax into observe this big thing type of finale.

 

[Bedrockgames]

There was strategy in picking your fights as you went in a lot of AD&D, but most led to fights until the story modules started to climax into observe this big thing type of finale.

It wasn't just picking them, a lot of how we played was stuff like avoiding the fight entirely, pitting foes against each other, allying with monstrous threats from time to time. But either way, by the time you get to Ravenloft, the black box is pretty explicit that isn't about stucturing the game around fighting. Obviously its likely you have a big battle with a creature if you are on a monster hunt, but not always. And adventures centered around vulnerable foes you don't end up facing off with in a protracted battle were totally viable. Not every adventure needed to end that way.

 

[Bedrockgames]

It was in mine. From Gygax's T1 which pretty much culminated with fighting the New Master,and on most modules usually had a climax fight as the culmination.

My experience with AD&D 1E and 2E was quite different. It was all about being cautious, making alliances, using your brain to get the treasure. If we could avoid fighting the dragon (or whatever it was being faced) we would. And importantly fighting wasn't nearly as protracted as it became in 3E. Third edition sessions were literally structured around combat if you followed the guidelines in the DMG, whereas 1st and 2nd were not. And the combats in WOTC D&D always took way longer. My AD&D combats were much shorter: and this I know because I went back to 2E after years of running 3E and the difference was striking.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Assasin's Creed videogames show us how to kill some character is easy, but the true challenge is to arrive enough near until him.

And a mind-controlling foe may be very, very dangerous. Haven't you watched the movie "the village of the Dammed"?

Some nPCs should be "customizable" in the sense you could add or quit levels and traits to adjust them for the PCs in your game, almost like a template.

I guess some dark lords were created to be "cannon fodder" and killed later if the metaplot had continued. We can't forget the living brain (formely Rudolph Von Aubrecker), a powerful (undead?) psionic.

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[Bedrockgames]

Extra weird because he canonically has a son. Maybe it's his wife? I would guess they're completely rewriting the domain with no similarity to the original.

I am guessing they are either just changing the characters and going back to the 735 calendar date, or these are descendants. Imagining the domains could be quite different like you say

 

[Bedrockgames]

Of course Ravenloft has to change, but not only to be more inclusive but because the current fandom also is changing. The original Ravenloft was inspired in the old black & white horror movies, but today these can't the exclusive main of inspiration. Today new DM generations drinks different sources, as the indie horror movies, TV-Shows, Asian comics, survival horror videogames, or other TTRPGs besides the classic World of Darkness.

Keep in mind when Ravenloft came out we were drinking from different sources too, but the argument laid out in Black Box was 'go back to the classic sources, there is value in them'. And it isn't like black and white movies were still being made when Ravenloft came out (black and white horror films were considered old at the time). Don't get me wrong I looooove survival horror, and I love all kinds of subgenres of horror, but I do think if they incorporate stuff like survival horror its really not going to be Ravenloft anymore. They can update it and still be rooted in foundations like Shelley, Le Fanu, Blackwood, black and white horror movies, hammer film, etc. Put if you put comic book stuff in there, that is going to produce a very different feel IMO. I am not saying newer media isn't a good fit (I could certainly see something like some Japanese Horror working well in the Ravenloft setting). But when you add to a genre to continue to give it life (which I think genres do need), compatibility is really important. For instance wuxia benefited from borrowing from spaghetti westerns and Samurai movies. But careless or hamfisted genre blending can be really thin and odd (like the Cowboys and Aliens movie). I think it's important to go back to the foundational sources, even if those sources mean something different to a new generation.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I guess some dark lords were created to be "cannon fodder" and killed later if the metaplot had continued. We can't forget the living brain (formely Rudolph Von Aubrecker), a powerful (undead?) psionic.

I think it was a variety of things (the need to reflect different power levels so GM's understood dark lords aren't all about being the most powerful thing on the planet, the possibility of players contending with dark lords who are easier to kill, the need for different kinds of adventures). With a character like D'Honaire, the difficulty is really in the hands of the GM. Another example is Ivan Dilisnya (who was one of my favorite lords). He is 0 level, has 8 HP and his big power is he can turn things to poison by touch 3 times a day (and he has some immunities like disease, poison and paralysis). I used him all the time in games. Because he is a very quirky character, I found it easy for things generally never come to combat. However there was one player who decided he wanted to end Ivan Dilisnya and blew up his house. I could have granted plot immunity and said he escaped, but an 8 HP character in a massive house explosion, seemed pretty definitive to me. It was definitely one of the more campy moments in my years of playing Ravenloft but then you need those Dr. Pretorius moments from time to time.

 

[Remathilis]

I disagree strongly (which probably isn't a surprise .

Wouldn't be a day that ends in -y if you didn't.

I thought it was good that some domain lords were physically powerful and enduring, while others were more vulnerable. But D&D is not always about combat.

Certainly, it wouldn't be fun if all the Darklords were CR 15+. However, D&D (even AD&D) has always had a heavier emphasis on combat than other RPGs and unfortunately, when your players have a hammer, they start looking for nails. A Darklord like Dominic or Ivana basically can't survive any encounter with a group of mildly competent PCs, and their primary attacks (domination, poison) are coin-flip Save-or-die effects. Sure, they can be masterminds in far-off towers working through middlemen and lackeys, but that ends up removing the personal component of the character. How much fun is it if the PCs never get to confront their tormentor, or if they do they end him in one sword blow?

With ravenloft in particular that wasn't a setting that was meant to be about fighting. It takes pains to paint itself as not having as much focus on that aspect of play (encounters happen for sure, but a lot of the effort is put into making counters atmospheric and building to a sense of horror).

Yes and no. Surely, Ravenloft wasn't about dungeon crawls or random encounters tables, but combat was still a pivotal part of the game. (NWPs were still a nascent method of non-combat skill use, and other non-combat skills were primarily bundled into the Thief class). Sure, you spent a lot of time building dread, atmosphere and wonder into your PCs, but when the werewolf finally showed himself you still ended up rolling for initiative. I6 captures that spirit perfectly. Sure, Strahd's castle is gloomy and atmospheric (and mostly devoid of combat encounters, save for random encounters, Strahd strikes and the occasional guardian) but eventually you encounter Strahd and dice come out and live-or-die you have a memorable encounter. Ultimately, D&D is still a game of heroics, even when wrapped in gothic finery. The Heroes are going to want to confront the monster.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That seems like kinda a problem with a sourcebook for a tabletop game though? The number one thing a writer should be thinking is how the player characters are going to interact with it.

It's a very common one though. Look at how many old sourcebooks gave stats for the rulers of the various kingdoms. Just how often do PCs fight the reigning monarch?

 

[Remathilis]

It's a very common one though. Look at how many old sourcebooks gave stats for the rulers of the various kingdoms. Just how often do PCs fight the reigning monarch?

I think the issue is that if Dominic is just the local ruler of his domain (even if he is an Evil ruler) but doesn't get involved with the PCs, its irrelevant what his stats are. But the moment he becomes an antagonist to the PCs, the greater the chances the PCs are going to try to confront him and he's just not built for that.