Ready action question

[Saeviomagy]

It's always safest to let him move at least ten feet before you move.

-Hyp.

Why? If he's charging, it's a seperate action to taking a 5 foot step, or moving and attacking etc. Charge is a totally different action.

Hence you could even say "I wait until my opponent charges", and counter charge, arrive within 5 feet, and have him standing there saying "bugger, wish I could have run a little more before you did that. Now I can't attack"...

 

[Li Shenron]

I would have ruled it in the following way.

OPTION 1
- you can ready a move with trigger "as soon as the guy with the spear throws it at me"
- when he throws the spear, you take your move
- the spear thrower cannot choose not to throw anymore (just as a spellcaster cannot choose not to cast a spell after someone has done a readied attack to disrupt), his throw and your move were simultaneous, but see below
- however, he can still target you with that attack, he doesn't automatically miss "because you have moved"

A point of readying the move could be for example to get behind cover or drop to the ground for an AC bonus.

OPTION 2
The only problem is when your move would put you behind total cover, in which case there is no hope for him to hit you (in a similar situation, when your opponent is casting a targetted spell at you instead of ranged-attacking, the case could be that your new position gives no line of effect for the spell). Because of this case, I think Hyp's suggestion is good, to rule that he can at the least choose at the last second not to throw, but the attack action is wasted anyway - imagine he thrusted the spear with a movement of the body, but didn't release it.

This second ruling would leave the open problem that a spellcaster could claim the right to do the same (keep his spell if he cannot target the target anymore), but if you allow that, why not allowing a spellcaster not to finish casting a spell when someone has readied to disrupt him?

 

[Darklone]

Readying needs an overhaul.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Readying needs an overhaul.

I agree. My head is spinning thanks to this thread, though in practice I've had little trouble with readied actions. The downside is that if your opponent doesn't do what you readied for, you've wasted an action. So, for instance, if you ready to duck behind a wall when the spear-wielder throws at you, and he instead decides to charge you, you're SOL. The same if you ready to move on a charge, and he decides to throw. Because of this, I've never seen someone try to use a readied action to avoid a ranged attack. The action is usually better spent somewhere else.

 

[Amal Shukup]

This second ruling would leave the open problem that a spellcaster could claim the right to do the same (keep his spell if he cannot target the target anymore), but if you allow that, why not allowing a spellcaster not to finish casting a spell when someone has readied to disrupt him?

The way I've always seen this is that as the caster starts to cast, the magic begins to manifest itself - tangible. It needs to be, actually, in order to be affected by the Counterspell. (Of course, it's not directly detectable bt the Counterspeller, so one wonders precisely how this manifesting magic is targetted exactly)

At any rate, I see the magic as the spear being cocked and getting ready to be hurled...

BUT the CounterSpell actually destroys the magic itself - toasting the spell. In contrast to the spear, which IS NOT destroyed by the Readied 'hide behind this here wall' Action...

But a Readied Disintegrate Spell targeting the spear would... (but is it still 'attended' after it leaves the hand? Ow! Brain hurts again!)

I don't think Readied Actions need to be overhauled, just tweaked. Establish a universal rule (specifying sequence and consequences to triggering actions) then enumerate exceptions...

I think in any case, a readied action would require that the triggering 'action' continues (most likely wasted). Where the diofficulty lies is in how the continuation occurs:

- Is the spear thrown, or can it be retained for later use? (not actually thrown)
- If it is NOT actually thrown, does it use up a True Strike?
- Does the triggering action (not actually completed) provoke an AOO from the invisible opponent next to the attacker? (yes, I think so)
- Is the magic of a triggering spell lost? (yes)
- Can a readied action be provoked using the Bluff Skill? (I think so)
- If so, how does a Counterspell manifest if no actual magic is in place to be countered? How does this change depending on the spell's normal 'target'?
- No doubt many more...​

A'Mal

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why? If he's charging, it's a seperate action to taking a 5 foot step, or moving and attacking etc. Charge is a totally different action.

Indeed. With several conditions.

1. You must charge directly to the closest square from which you can attack your opponent.
2. All movement must be in a straight line.
3. You must move at least ten feet.

So if he charges five feet towards , and then you move thirty feet off at some angle away from the line of his charge...

He can't continue moving along the line of his charge - it would break condition 1.
He can't change direction and keep charging at where you are now - it would break condition 2.
He can't stop moving - it would break condition 3.

Unexpected exception error in routine FCharge

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This second ruling would leave the open problem that a spellcaster could claim the right to do the same (keep his spell if he cannot target the target anymore), but if you allow that, why not allowing a spellcaster not to finish casting a spell when someone has readied to disrupt him?

My ruling in the case of a spell is that someone can choose to not-cast a spell in response to a readied action... but doing so loses that slot.

For example, your buddies are in melee the evil wizard, your only offensive spell left is Fireball, there's a good chance you'll seriously hurt one of your friends, you decided to cast anyway...

... and the wizard's readied action triggers, and he teleports away.

You don't choose the point of origin of the fireball until the spell comes into effect, but there's nowhere in the room you can place it where it's not going to hurt someone... so you just abort the casting, losing the slot, but not hurting anyone, and still costing you your standard action.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

Here's how I see readied actions, generally.

First, they either go just before triggering action or they interrupt it (counterspell). In either case, to avoid the following weird sequence, the original actor MUST continue his action, or at least attempt to do so and use up the action.

The problem:

A. I attack B (throwing my spear)
B. No, wait, my readied action was to duck behind the wall if you did that.
A. OKay, then, you are behind the wall. Since I haven't yet actually acted, I will move first, and then attack you.
B, No, wait. If you are not attacking right away (by taking a move before attacking), then my readied action does not happen and I'm back in front of the wall and I'm STILL ready to move should you attack me.

Aaaarrrrrggghhhh.......

Keep in mind that while this might make a readied action seem too powerful by circumventing the normal game mechanic to dodge an attack, you do so at a cost - the cost being the potential of losing an action all together.

I see it happening one of two ways:

1.

A: Readies his move action (as above).
DM: (Secretly) Rolls a Sense Motive check maybe, perhaps DC 10 (I just made that up), for B to notice something's up. B makes the check.
DM: Okay, B, you notice that A is ready and waiting for something.
B: Okay, then, I assume he's waiting for me to attack him again with my spear of returning, so I'll attack someone else instead, and A won't get to take his readied action if I'm right.
A: Drat - I get no action now and B just hit C (hard)!!

or

2.

A: Readies his move action (as above).
DM: (Secretly) Rolls a Sense Motive check maybe, perhaps DC 10 (I just made that up), for B to notice something's up. B makes the check.
DM: Okay, B, you notice that A is ready and waiting for something.
B: Well, I think he's getting ready to interrupt my spellcasting buddy, "D," so I'll attack A with my spear.
A: All right! My readied action kicks in, and I duck out of the way behind the wall.
DM: Sorry, B, but A ducked out of the way. I'll generously allow you to retarget your spear or to not throw it, but either way you are using up your attack action.

That's how I'd run it.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I've seen that come up before with both Ready and Contingency

It's up to the DM, I guess.

Can a Readied attack ('When he casts a spell') be triggered by a silent, still, eschewed spell, if the Readier has no ranks in Spellcraft?

Can the same Readied attack be triggered by someone waving their arms and chanting gibberish?

and for bonus points....

If the action you are readying IS a spell, does someone with ranks in spellcraft know what spell it is?

Do people know you are readying as opposed to "not gone yet" or delaying?

Should there be a sense motive check to determine a readied action or the triggering event?

And just for sheer coolness (and related to the "after it leaves before it hits" idea) can an archer ready an action to shoot the little pea sized fireball just as it leaves the wizards finger, thus setting it off with him at ground zero?

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.)

 

[thorian]

Why? If he's charging, it's a seperate action to taking a 5 foot step, or moving and attacking etc. Charge is a totally different action.

Hence you could even say "I wait until my opponent charges", and counter charge, arrive within 5 feet, and have him standing there saying "bugger, wish I could have run a little more before you did that. Now I can't attack"...

You couldn't charge as a readied action because you can only ready standard actions, and charging is a full round action. The 3.0 partial charge is gone in 3.5. The only time you can charge as a standard action in 3.5 is if you are restricted to taking only a standard action (like in a surprise round).