ready action vs silent still spell

[Tom Cashel]

Silent Spells have no verbal components. Nothing to Hear, no Check can be made. No counterspell. One Dead Wizard.

This is flat-out wrong.

From the SRD, Feats, explanation of Metamagic Feats:

Counterspelling Metamagic Spells: Whether a spell has been enhanced by a metamagic feat does not affect its vulnerability to counterspelling or its ability to counterspell another spell.

And that's the triple-truth, Ruth.

By extrapolation and logical deduction, and based on what I believe to be the intent of the rules, my opinion is:

the archer gets his readied action.

 

[LokiDR]

Spell like abilities have no components, are identifiable (as magic), and provoke AoOs.

Still silent spells have no components, that can be seen. These then should be identifyable and provoke AoOs.

Hence, still/silent doesn't prevent AoOs or ready action.

Not formal logic, but it illustrates a point.

 

[IceBear]

This is flat-out wrong.

From the SRD, Feats, explanation of Metamagic Feats:



And that's the triple-truth, Ruth.

By extrapolation and logical deduction, and based on what I believe to be the intent of the rules, my opinion is:

the archer gets his readied action.

I agree.

Also, according to the FAQ a Quickened spell doesn't provoke an AoO but it is still vunerable to counterspelling (just to show how murky all this is from a logic point of view, but it appears that it was intended to work this way).

IceBear

 

[Zulkir of Dartmouth]

To counterspell any spell the person counterspelling would have to know that the person is casting, and then role a successful spellcraft check. The spellcraft skill states (PHB p74) "DC 15 + spell level - identify a spell being cast (you must see or hear the spells verbal or somatic components.) No retry."

PHB p 85 Still Spell: A still spell can be cast with no somatic components.
PHB p 151 Somatic Component: A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand or some other part of the body.
Therefore if there is no Somatic Component there is no measured and precise movement of the body.

PHB p 85 Silent Spell: You can cast spells silently. ( no verbal component)
PHB p 151 Verbal Components: A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
Therefore if there is no Verbal Component there is no sound coming from the caster.

So even though your Metamagic feats don't effect the
vulnerability to counterspelling, it effects the Spellcraft check needed to counterspell.

 

[LokiDR]

Counterspelling isn't an issue. Noticing casting at all is. No componts->no spellcraft check. Componts, metamagic don't matter.

 

[IceBear]

And it gets even weirder when you look at this in the FAQ:

Does casting a quickened spell provoke an attack of
opportunity? Can a counterattack or counterspell be
readied against a quickened spell or is it too quick to
identify or counter?

A quickened spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity
(see Table 8-4 in the Player's Handbook). A quickened spell
can be counterspelled using the normal rules.

Somehow, a caster can identify and counter something that takes a free action to cast with a standard action

IceBear

 

[Sixchan]

Maybe he should only be able to counter with a quickened counterspell.

 

[LokiDR]

And it gets even weirder when you look at this in the FAQ:

Somehow, a caster can identify and counter something that takes a free action to cast with a standard action

IceBear

Makes sense to me. Too fast to react to, but not to fast if you are ready for it. Like jumping out of the way of a car. Possible if you know it is comming.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, I guess the counterspell itself is done differently than the actual casting of the spell.

What I mean is, if it normally takes you 3 seconds (let's say) to cast a fireball, and someone casts a quickened fireball (0 seconds to cast) it's seems odd that you can identify it and then cast your own fireball (which I would have thought takes 3 seconds) as a counter in time to prevent it from going off.

I'm not saying I couldn't picture it, it justs seems odd. That's all

IceBear

 

[LokiDR]

Logic + Magic + RPGs = exploded head.

The ruling from the FAQ seems fair. If it doesn't play out as even, you can always houserule.