Real Religion in Adventure Design

This has been a good discussion; I appreciate the genuine desire to do the right thing in it. Let me tell you a little about my experience.

I am a Christian from a mainstream denomination; I’ve always been a Christian and I’ve been a role player for 30+ years, of which the last 20 I have been living in the US. I’ve played a lot of games with a lot of people, a fair number of whom are Christian. I’ve helped run a D&D club in my local church and I’ve been involved occasionally at religious services at game conventions.

As @aramis erak says, the first thing I’d note is that antipathy for D&D is no longer a big thing in the mainstream church. I;m not not saying it’s not there — we have neighbors who didn’t let their kids watch Harry Potter because it had magic in it and I doubt they’d be happy with D&D playing (we never invited their kids to play D&D with us, respecting their beliefs). But overall it just doesn’t seem important in the Christian community. Honestly, it really shouldn’t be. Pretty anyway you read the Bible or major theological writings says that Christians should focus on helping other people and be less upset about exact beliefs. There are a hundred clear statements that you should help people in need for every one that says you should avoid contact with sin, so even if you do equate D&D with sin, it should be low on your priority.

Which brings me to my second point; Christianity is more than a belief system, it is also a culture. More specifically, it is a whole set of cultures. In my culture, our church is focussed on inclusivity, and you would be more likely to be condemned for opposing gay rights than for playing D&D (and in fact, several people have left our church because we are vocal in our support of the LBGT community). But other cultures are different. One strong cultural branch of Christianity is centered on trying to preserve a vision of Christianity that focuses on personal morality, on traditional families, on strong gender roles. That branch doesn’t focus on the core message of Jesus, but instead focuses on reacting against change and against what they see as evil influences on society. For them, D&D is another example of an evil influence that they oppose (mostly half-heartedly nowadays, as they are fighting bigger changes).

In my experience, I like the opportunity to see real religion in games. It’s like sex or romance — a powerful and fundamental drive that everyone knows should be fundamental to a setting, but is often left out because it is tricky. If you are running a real-world game, it should have religion in it to be realistic. If you are running a game in an imaginary setting, i’d suggest following the same kind of guidelines as you would for other cultures — be respectful, avoid hot-button topics, don’t consistently associate them with negative images.

So, try and avoid the “all paladins are stupid because their beliefs make them unwilling to compromise” trope. Don’t have a campaign focused on abortion or gay rights, and don’t use religious names in disrespectful ways.

However, do have fun playing with what-ifs! As a Christian I like to think a bit about my faith and enjoy it when GMs pose questions like “so, aliens — should they be saved?” Or “magic is observable, what’s the church’s attitude?”. Adding a big change or a focus like this is an excellent idea because it does two things: First, it engages those of us who are believers. And second, it adds a bit of distance between your portrayal and the actual culture, which helps smooth over any issues.

And really, really, don’t worry about making honest mistakes. Good players support their GMs and do their best to make the GMs vision work; hold Christian players to the same standard and have fun!
 

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aramis erak

Legend
However, do have fun playing with what-ifs! As a Christian I like to think a bit about my faith and enjoy it when GMs pose questions like “so, aliens — should they be saved?”
I asked that of a theologian (John Fearon, Order of Preachers - aka, Dominican), and he didn't know. So he asked Pope JP II. several weeks later, Friar John showed me the letter from the vatican. Hand written, but numbered:
Dear John,
One must only be a reasoning intelligent being capable of understanding the sacraments. Why do you ask?
John Paul II
So, I know that, at least for the 23 hierarchies in full communion with Rome, there IS an answer.

(My dad was the cathedral deacon for the Archdiocese of Anchorage's Cathedral for more than 10 years. I spent a lot of time around theologians. I had no idea that Friar John would get an official answer. Until he did.)
 



Ixal

Hero
I asked that of a theologian (John Fearon, Order of Preachers - aka, Dominican), and he didn't know. So he asked Pope JP II. several weeks later, Friar John showed me the letter from the vatican. Hand written, but numbered:

So, I know that, at least for the 23 hierarchies in full communion with Rome, there IS an answer.

(My dad was the cathedral deacon for the Archdiocese of Anchorage's Cathedral for more than 10 years. I spent a lot of time around theologians. I had no idea that Friar John would get an official answer. Until he did.)
There was a short lived SciFi setting (mostly for a video game, Sword of the Stars, but they put a lot of effort into developing it) where the church was a major player as they started missionary work again once alien live was discovered, even managing to embed themselves into the ruling families of an alien empire.
I effect the Vatican had a better understanding of intergalactic politics and alien races than the official space agency of earth and all the really good books and notes about it were written in Latin.
 

aramis erak

Legend
There was a short lived SciFi setting (mostly for a video game, Sword of the Stars, but they put a lot of effort into developing it) where the church was a major player as they started missionary work again once alien live was discovered, even managing to embed themselves into the ruling families of an alien empire.
I effect the Vatican had a better understanding of intergalactic politics and alien races than the official space agency of earth and all the really good books and notes about it were written in Latin.
There are several authors who have written the Catholic Communion (it really is more than just the Roman Church) increasing missionary work post-contact. Orson Scott Card, in his Enderverse, has a reasonable extrapolation of the Roman Church, with the same "dogmatic error" as Rev. Fr. Andrew Greely: Female priests and bishops. Otherwise, both have written the Church as reaching out to ETs. Several others have had presence of the Catholic and Orthodox communions off-world, but without a good working knowledge of extant dogmatic structures. I've often had issues with misportrayals of various churches in the media.
Which, bringing back to topic, One of my great discomforts with 7th Sea is that John writes it with the Gnostics holding the majority at the end of the first Ecumennical Council... It's right in that uncanny valley for me.
 

Esau Cairn

Explorer
Orson Scott Card, in his Enderverse, has a reasonable extrapolation of the Roman Church, with the same "dogmatic error" as Rev. Fr. Andrew Greely: Female priests and bishops.

I took Card's perspective to be that by that time, there would be female priests and bishops. But from a conservative Catholic viewpoint, that would constitute a dogmatic error.
Back an aeon ago, when I was a non-Catholic in Catholic high school, the token renegade Jesuit teacher had AC Clarke's short story "The Star" as required reading over Christmas break. A nice fusion of religion and physics.

We use real-world regions and their adherents often in our games (particularly T2k and Delta Green), and perhaps because folks usually at the game table are from at least five different religious backgrounds (with one surviving a politico-religious genocide in the 90s), our in-game depictions are equal parts unflinchingly critical and evenhandedly fair.
 

Aldarc

Legend
Which, bringing back to topic, One of my great discomforts with 7th Sea is that John writes it with the Gnostics holding the majority at the end of the first Ecumennical Council... It's right in that uncanny valley for me.
That entire setting is a massive uncanny valley that has never sat well with me.
 

aramis erak

Legend
I took Card's perspective to be that by that time, there would be female priests and bishops. But from a conservative Catholic viewpoint, that would constitute a dogmatic error.
Back an aeon ago, when I was a non-Catholic in Catholic high school, the token renegade Jesuit teacher had AC Clarke's short story "The Star" as required reading over Christmas break. A nice fusion of religion and physics.

We use real-world regions and their adherents often in our games (particularly T2k and Delta Green), and perhaps because folks usually at the game table are from at least five different religious backgrounds (with one surviving a politico-religious genocide in the 90s), our in-game depictions are equal parts unflinchingly critical and evenhandedly fair.
By even a relatively moderate practical Catholic view, women in the presbyterate are heresy, period - the definition of dogma is that which cannot be changed, ever, as it's directly revealed word of God via the Church. Denial of any dogma is an automatic excommunication, until one forces assent of will upon accepting that same one. And it has multiply been dogmatically declared impossible to ordain women to the presbyterate. (Note that papal election is not considered a dogmatic act... and popes have been removed for belief of heresies - none taught them as pope, but there were a couple close calls.)
Essentially, that's a change that would split the church in half, right quick. And if endorsed by a pope, he'd cease being the pope the moment he said it.
And it's a break in verisimilitude for me. Huge one. I have a number of friends for whom, finding out Rev. Fr. Andrew Greely has written a prediction of the church embracing heresy, stopped reading any of his works. I've read that he was formally censured for The Final Planet.

Different people are going to have different reactions to such. But when one portrays a long established "unchangeable truth" of a major religion in a recreational use setting (books, games), many of even the lax end of that faith are going to be annoyed by it.

If one wants to have a Catholic church with female priests and bishops, it's better to use one of the many of the "schismatic catholic churches" which already ordain female priests and bishops. From the Roman viewpoint, that includes Mariavites, Utrecht Union, "Old Catholic" churches (all of which trace back to the Utrect Union), one of the Malabarese churches, a couple of odd Russian Orthodox and Ukrainian Orthodox schimsatic groups...
Or to explicitly be set in an alternate timeline/universe, where that dogma never was declared.
 

pemerton

Legend
By even a relatively moderate practical Catholic view, women in the presbyterate are heresy, period - the definition of dogma is that which cannot be changed, ever, as it's directly revealed word of God via the Church.
There are many Catholic priests who think that there is no principled theological objection to the ordination of women. I'm not going to express a view on these boards as to whether or not I agree with them. But clearly they don't think od themselves that they're heretics!
 

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