Realistic Combat that's Simple(ish)

[Theory of Games]

Champions suffers from a number of problems when its wide scale gets narrowed down to “heroic” humans, whose stats really only have a few possible values: half-normal, normal, 1.5x-normal, or 2x-normal.

Simply dodging attacks should be exhausting for normal people.

Having been in more than my share of street fights and done a little amateur boxing, nope. Evading attacks is far easier and far less taxing physically than actually throwing punches, grappling & kicking.

If you’ve ever worn heavy gear, you can see that it doesn’t require some special skill proficiency, but it is exhausting and painful if you’re not used to it.

I have no trouble imagining that a wizard could wear heavy armor, but there’s no way he’d hike cross-country and climb down holes in it.

Actually, wearing armor affects your overall speed and coordination, so yeah, if "realism" is what we're after, there should be a level of skill incorporated into the proper use of armor.

 

[mmadsen]

Having been in more than my share of street fights and done a little amateur boxing, nope. Evading attacks is far easier and far less taxing physically than actually throwing punches, grappling & kicking.

If you’re skilled, you can slip punches without much effort. If you’re not, and you’re not in fighting shape, it’s work — but it’s “free” in the Hero System.

Punching uses energy, kicking uses more, and grappling uses even more — until you’ve established dominant position.

Actually, wearing armor affects your overall speed and coordination, so yeah, if "realism" is what we're after, there should be a level of skill incorporated into the proper use of armor.

Getting used to wearing pads in football or hockey involved very little skill training but a fair amount of conditioning, mainly to get used to the extra heat.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Champions suffers from a number of problems when its wide scale gets narrowed down to “heroic” humans, whose stats really only have a few possible values: half-normal, normal, 1.5x-normal, or 2x-normal.

Simply dodging attacks should be exhausting for normal people.

If you’ve ever worn heavy gear, you can see that it doesn’t require some special skill proficiency, but it is exhausting and painful if you’re not used to it.

I have no trouble imagining that a wizard could wear heavy armor, but there’s no way he’d hike cross-country and climb down holes in it.

Those type of issues were what LTE was supposed to address, its just that for the most part people couldn't be bothered; even heroic scale games with Hero were normally used for high-cinematic settings and the like, and in most of those getting tired is only rarely presented as a big deal. That's even true for some that pay more attention to injury.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If you’re skilled, you can slip punches without much effort. If you’re not, and you’re not in fighting shape, it’s work — but it’s “free” in the Hero System.

Technically not in the latter versions. Its an END point a pop. Its just that normal people don't have a high enough SPD for that to be significant.

Punching uses energy, kicking uses more, and grappling uses even more — until you’ve established dominant position.

Getting used to wearing pads in football or hockey involved very little skill training but a fair amount of conditioning, mainly to get used to the extra heat.

I suspect that's a case of you using "skill" and "conditioning" in a way more distinct than the prior poster, or really I, would.

 

[Clint_L]

Rolemaster solved this circa 1980.

Both combatants have an Offensive Bonus (OB) resulting from their skill, strength, positional advantage, etc. At the start of the round each combatant decides how much of their OB they use to attack and how much they hold back as a Defensive Bonus (DB) that subtracts from incoming attacks.

Some editions have a similar decision point regarding Initiative where you can act quickly at -20, act normally at +0, or act slowly at +10.

When you attack someone you roll d100, add your OB and other bonuses, and subtract their DB and other penalties.

The real innovation is that you compare your result on a table. Each weapon has its own table (like broadswords and shortswords and scimitars and daggers are all different full-page tables). There are 20 Armour Types, from AT1 (nothing) tthrough leathers and chain to AT20 full plate. Each one is a separate column on the table. The results on the table determine whether it's a hit, how much hit point damage it causes, and what kind of critical table you roll on. Rolemaster characters generally have a lot more hit points and it's the critical hit tables that create the deaths and maimings.

What this means is that some armour types (like AT1) have more total misses (you are better able to dodge) but when you do get hit, it might be 20 hit points damage and a nasty crit. If you're in leather you are a bit easier to hit but the armour soaks up some of the damage so you lose less hit points and get reduced crit levels. If you're in chain or plate you are even easier to hit again but a lot more attacks that would have been nasty crits against AT1 are reduced to just hit point damage or lesser crit effects.

These tables are different for each weapon so slashing weapons might be even worse against plate while piercing weapons are even better against leather.

It seems very complex, and has a reputation for being complex, but as long as you can do a bit of addition I would say it's less complex than most modern editions of D&D. The tables do a lot of the heavy lifting.

Eh, I used to run a Rolemaster campaign. It’s a lot more complex than any version of D&D IMO.