REALLY What Was So Bad About 2nd Edition?

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree with above.

Add:
6. Multiclassing rules.
7. Inconsistency for stats, both for minor differences for the same attribute and between different attributes.
8. Charts, charts, charts, CHARTS, CHARTS!!!

Did I mention charts? I used to play 1e/2e 3 times a month and we were still pulling out charts all the time. After two sessions of playing 3e, I needed to pull out the book maybe half as much.

1e had these same problems too. But it would be unfair to beat 1e up for that because "better" alternatives were not obvious at the time. They were when 2e was written.

 

[Grazzt]

The only thing I miss about 2e is the whole what the DM says goes thing. I liked that sort of power.

PHB page 4, Rule 0.

Also, the DMG, page 6 under "Final Note" (bottom of the page).

What the DM says goes.

 

[Nightfall]

Basically I hated it because with 4 people, it took like SIX to EIGHT hours just to get characters written! By the time we got that done, we all just didn't feel like playing. Also proficienices, didn't make sense, especially weapon proficienices. Now at least, as a cleric, I can wield a longsword for a god of war IF I felt like it. I felt and still feel it was/is a lame excuse that "clerics can only use blungeoning weapons". A god of war doesn't want his clerics to use longswords?! Anyway now things are okay.

 

[Zappo]

Inconsistent rules; very similar actions would be carried out with very different mechanics. Psionics were terrible. Racial class and level limits were complete nonsense, as well as multi/dualclassing rules.

Oh, and balancing classes with slower or faster advancement was also very bad. It meant that certain classes would be underpowered at low levels and overpowered at high levels, or vice-versa. That's the same reason for which balancing races with level limits failed - you got to be more powerful at low levels, and totally screwed when you hit the limit. The result was to be unbalanced at all levels.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

On reflection.....

I guess my biggest beef with the 2e system would have to be the way each ability stat had a different...... you guessed it.... CHART. A 15 in STR meant basically nothing. In DEX it would give you -1 to AC.... but no bow bonus IIRC. Put it in Con, hey look you got a +1 HP/level!

And worst of all, a 14 meant almost nothing in any stat, except as a "qualifier" for a good class.... which was another thing that kinda sucked I guess. Rangers, paladins, druids, specialist wizards, etc. were just plain better than the "normal" classes. Result: munchkinism?

 

[Aaron L]

What I didn't like about 2nd Edition:

The changing of Demons and Devils to Tanar'ri and Baatezu

The ranger

The removal of half-orcs and assassins

The adoption of the (very) bad proficiency rules

The way magic resistance worked

The random, inequal, and contradicting rules from different handbooks, each of which had different authors who apparently had never read any of the other rules.

What I didn't like from 1E and 2E

Racial class and level restrictions

multiclassing/dual classing rules

THAC0, which had a built in maximum armor class

The hodgepodge of spells. Spells doing nearly the same thing from different sources being radically different levels. Really, many of the 8th and 9th level spells seemed like they were never meant to be used in a game, just to be gawked at.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

My group had great fun with 1e, then even more fun with 2e, and EVEN MORE fun with 2.5 (Skills & Powers), culminating in the MOST FUN YET with 3e. Each edition has gotten better and better, IMO.

Basically, while the rules system is important, the story and characters are even more important to having a good time.

 

[trancejeremy]

I didn't like 2E's skill system. It was basically all or nothing, based on a character's attribute. That really really sucked, and was my main problem.

I also didn't like the concept of 'kits'. IMHO, they were basically different sub-classes, but weren't balanced very well.

Same with specialty priests. I liked the idea of them, but they weren't balanced*. I think 3E went a bit too far in the other direction, making Clerics too dull, but various clerical prestige classes fix that problem (especially for each god).

I also didn't like how Priests had better attack progression than Thieves did. Seems counterintuitive. At least now they are the same.

I also didn't like 2E's stat bonuses. Favored high attributes too heavily, made other ones meaningless. I always preferred the D&D version, which is quite close to 3E.

I also didn't like what 2E did to Illusionists. That wasn't really fixed in 3E, but it can be. Also to Monks and Assassins. The 3E Monk is actually pretty cool, but I wish there were an Assassin base class (supposedly the Green Ronin Master Class series will have an assassin base class)



*For instance, there was a Priest in Birthright that basically got the casting ability of a wizard of half his level. That's huge. Another one got thief abilities.

 

[BOZ]

you know what i noticed? a lot of the complaints about 2E's mechanics are things that have been around since 1E... so maybe this is just a complaint about 1E and 2E.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Either players got it, in which case they still get it, or they didn't, in which case they quit gaming. What I mean is, is BAB really that much simpler than THAC0?

Well, yes it is! BAB allows for a virtually unlimited AC whereas THACO capped off at -10 (I know, I know you can always extend the tables past -10 but I defy you to find any offical monster that had an AC better than -10). Also the mechanics of BAB are simpler - add all your bonuses and roll - if you beat number 'X' you hit where X = AC. Before you had to cross reference the AC with your level add your bonuses, roll and then beat the number set by the AC!* It may only take out one step but that is a step you had to do over and over again. It will be a cold day in hell before I go back to THAC0.

It took me all of 5 minutes to explain BAB to new players. I have spent 5 sessions explaining THAC0.


*=I can't believe I still remember how to do this (and I have friends who, honest to goodness have completely forgotten how to calculate THAC0).