REALLY What Was So Bad About 2nd Edition?

[7thlvlDM]

7thlvlDM, Psion, I'll say this one last time: please bring the thread back on topic. The topic is not "Two interesting people quote each other to death about 3e balance." The topic IS "What was bad about 2nd edition."

If you guys want to continue your debate, please take it to another thread or to email, but this thread isn't the place for it.

Did ya say it once before? Cuz I must have missed it...

Very well then, I will cease and desist. Not like Psion and I have any prayer of changing each other's minds anyways.

-7th

 

[Number47]

I hate to interject, but you are giving Shocking Grasp a bad rap. Remember that you can cast it, THEN move, THEN touch the bad guy for damage. At tenth level, Magic Missile does an average of 17.5 damage. Shocking grasp does an average of 14.5. Difference in damage is minor. Shocking grasp can have a critical hit and can also be used to sneak attack. If you miss with the hit (unlikely), the spell is still active and you can try again. Note the very high damage cap for shocking grasp. Does even higher damage than other first levels at higher caster level.

 

[7thlvlDM]

I hate to interject, but you are giving Shocking Grasp a bad rap. Remember that you can cast it, THEN move, THEN touch the bad guy for damage. At tenth level, Magic Missile does an average of 17.5 damage. Shocking grasp does an average of 14.5. Difference in damage is minor. Shocking grasp can have a critical hit and can also be used to sneak attack. If you miss with the hit (unlikely), the spell is still active and you can try again. Note the very high damage cap for shocking grasp. Does even higher damage than other first levels at higher caster level.

Yes, but you have to roll to hit (touch attacks aren't that likely given a wizard's BAB) and the chances of a critical are less than the chances of missing. With both magic missle and burning hands you can hit multiple targets, and you don't have to get in close.

Probably not the place to discuss this (PC will get mad at me ), but can you deal sneak attack damage on a touch attack??

 

[novyet]

Yes, but you have to roll to hit (touch attacks aren't that likely given a wizard's BAB) and the chances of a critical are unlikely. With both magic missle and burning hands you can hit multiple targets, and you don't have to get in close.

Touch attacks are still pretty likely with a wizard's BAB, because let's face it most things do have a really lousy touch ac.

Now as for 2nd, it was god awfully complicated, too many rules and books, it seemed to take what was good about 1st and overcomplicate it. That said they did put out some wicked supplements in 2nd, like Al-Qadim and Dark Sun, and some things that made you scratch your head. (2e psionics anyone? ) Like PC said I didn't see any huge problems when I played it, but when I go back to my 2e campaigns once a month. Wow. It's like torture. It feels so backwards. Just my .02

 

[Henry]

Let me just say that, as a player of a Psion in a 3E game, I am in love with touch and ranged touch attacks in 3E. It gives a wizard/sorcerer/psion the chance to be effective in hand-to-hand combat, should he ever be forced into that role.