Realmstalk (if you love it or hate it come on in)

[Lazybones]

I missed most of the 2nd ed Realms, although I read a few of the novels and scanned a few of the free ESDs when they became available. When the 3e Realms hardcover came out, I wanted to familiarize myself with it, so I started a fictional story hour here based that setting.... fanfic I guess. Now that it's in its 7th book and still growing, I guess I've learned a lot about the setting.

I agree that the Realms doesn't have to be about uber-NPCs. In fact, the sourcebook even tells you specifically to alter the Realms to fit your style (and there's even a sidebar that offers an explanation of why Elminister doesn't fix all the problems himself). I like the variety of the Realms, the quality of the sourcebook and the supplements, and the options available to DMs and players (regional feats, PrCs, new spells, etc.).

I'm not running a Realms campaign right now, but am ready to go with one once the DM's hat comes around to me in my current group, and I use the Realms as a resource in developing my NWN campaign.

 

[jester47]

Actually Josh, you make some good points, and it is nice to hear about your experiences with the realms. I think it is like oneof the posters above said that to get it done right you need a DM that knows his (or her) realms. And I think that is why homebrew comes up as the best consistently. The DM knows his homebrew. And so as a result runs a better game.

Your mention of highlevel NPC stopping at every inn brings somthing to mind that I missed. I have found the high level NPCs are a great asset to the DM who wings it. (when I say high level I mean about 10 to 15). Having these guys around is great for me because I present several plot hooks and the players only follow one. The other high level Good NPCs (High level bad NPCS are simply plot hooks!) take care of those hooks that are time critical while the PCs are running around becoming high level PCs.

For anyone who does not know, the "Schtick" of the realms (sounds like a magic item) is the idea that empires rise and fall. This cycle has left tons of magic in the world just waiting to be discovered. (Anarouch for example is Ancient Netheril, and there is tons of magic there to be had!) The current time is a time of ascendency. Everyone is struggling to make thier place the next big empire in the northwestern part of the continent. Hence the conflicts between all the different power groups. Power in the realms is designed to come from crawling dungeons and discovering the magic of people long past through exploration, research or skullduggery.

edited to add comment about netheril and skullduggery. and take out asking Josh to share after the fact.

 

[Katerek]

For anyone who does not know, the "Schtick" of the realms (sounds like a magic item) is the idea that empires rise and fall.

hmmm

I honestly never knew that. That does help me with some of my suspension of disbelief issues as well. Thanks!

 

[Desdichado]

Actually Josh, you make some good points, and it is nice to hear about your experiences with the realms. I think it is like oneof the posters above said that to get it done right you need a DM that knows his (or her) realms. And I think that is why homebrew comes up as the best consistently. The DM knows his homebrew. And so as a result runs a better game.

I agree, really I prefer homebrew to any published setting, so I'm not (ever) really trying to rag on the Realms. The familiarity the DM can have with the Realms can be gained as well by having a homebrew, and in that case, you don't run into the potential problems of players that are encyclopeia-like in their own knowledge of the setting as well.

Your mention of highlevel NPC stopping at every inn brings somthing to mind that I missed. I have found the high level NPCs are a great asset to the DM who wings it. (when I say high level I mean about 10 to 15). Having these guys around is great for me because I present several plot hooks and the players only follow one. The other high level Good NPCs (High level bad NPCS are simply plot hooks!) take care of those hooks that are time critical while the PCs are running around becoming high level PCs.

Yes, it can be good or bad depending on how it's implemented. Either way, though, it's not really to my taste, and it also starts to really become jarring when you think about how many high level PCs are just sitting around, at least according to a lot of the sourcebooks I've read.

For anyone who does not know, the "Schtick" of the realms (sounds like a magic item) is the idea that empires rise and fall. This cycle has left tons of magic in the world just waiting to be discovered. (Anarouch for example is Ancient Netheril, and there is tons of magic there to be had!) The current time is a time of ascendency. Everyone is struggling to make thier place the next big empire in the northwestern part of the continent. Hence the conflicts between all the different power groups. Power in the realms is designed to come from crawling dungeons and discovering the magic of people long past through exploration, research or skullduggery.

I can see how that differentiates the Realms somewhat from Greyhawk, although the two settings are very similar IMO to each other in flavor, feel and the kinds of games that get played in them.

 

[Xarlen]

I was introduced to the Realms when I was introduced to Fantasy, in 1998, when I was lended a copy of The Crystal Shard.

Ever since then, I have Devoured the realms. I only bought the boxed set, but I've got so many Realms novels on my shelf.

I personally find that Elain Cunningham's books bring cities alive. The Thann and King and Counciler books are extravagant.

Most people seem pretty dang accusatory to the Realms when it comes to the Power level and the NPCs. For the Power level... well, there's magic. Everywhere. What do you expect? This is a place where you could end up on a flying disk in the middle of a flaming forest fighting a Dragon and three wizards, or a gaggle of Drow with more tactical magical items then a Mage's school. You get a lot of bang, a lot of magic, a lot of cinematics. Consider it a place where Magic=Tech. I see no one complaining about Technological places.

Yes, the PrCs, the feats, the spells, they're powerful. As is some of the other stuff WotC puts out.

The NPCs... okay. But as it's been pointed out, when the WORLD IS GOING TO END, they fix it. These are major things they deal with, leaving everything else to others. Else why would there be the Harpers? And even when the PCs get high enough where they're starting to DO the major NPC stuff, then it's time THEY become some of the Major NPCs.

I'm kinda tired of all the Realms bashing, and I'm glad to actually see people talk positively about it.

 

[Desdichado]

All those things you mention; the things I commonly hear the Realms bashed about, are all matters of taste, really. Although the Realms isn't really to my taste, it seems kinda silly to get in someone's shorts about their taste, when it comes right down to it. I can (I think) talk intelligently about the things I don't like about the Realms without saying that what I don't like are some kind of universal truths.

I guess that's why Realms bashing kinda bugs me, even though I'm not a big Realms fan. That, and that it isn't up-to-date; the 3e iteration of the Realms is really a very different animal in many ways than the end of 2e Realms, as near as I can tell.

 

[jester47]

Jester

I feel that Realms would require a similar knowledge base in order to properly pull off what the realms truly is. I have seen this in the past many times. I have been in a game where the DM got in a roadblock and uber-NPC had to save the day. It is also a matter of taste, deus-ex-machina is an exception rather than a rule in my mind.

And the fact that there are several uber NPCs around to create the superman syndrome (notice in the superman movies how superman seems to be able to save everyone?) is very tempting.

The way I handle it is if the players decide that they can handle somthing they can't and the party gets steemrollered by the evil that should not be, thats what happens.

Elminster (and everyone else 20+) is busy and probably does not know that the players are getting eaten by the thing that should not be. Now if the players have the foresight to go and ask Elminster for help on somthing (assuming he could be found and is not out having tea with the thing that should not be,) then they might get some advice or a handy somthing or another. However they are most likely to get a reference to some other lesser more specialised wizard on the other side of Faerun.

I would even allow them to say "Hey we are going to go raise this unspeakable evil and try to destroy it, if we dont come back within two weeks you might want to check on said evil." However, Elm doesn't do rescue missions. 1. Anyone over 20th level is busy with bigger things. 2. If one 20+ NPC saves a party then it would be the expectation and the 20+ers wouldn't get anything done. 3. He doesn't even know them, for all he knows they could be Zhents.

Now if the players have the foresight to arrange a rescue or being brought back to life, then thats kudo's to their foresight. But few ever think of this. Few even tell people that they are going into said dungeon. Why should they expect a rescue?

Deus-ex-Machina is not a convincing story device in my opinion.

Aaron.

 

[Xarlen]

I've always loved the Realms. Yes, they have so many cultures Mish-mashed, but that also has its' coolness factor to it.

One thing that I especially approve of is the fact that there is just So Much. Not just detail, but think. There are so many organizations and different plots and evils, that your PCs could never face them all. You could be on the Sword Coast and deal with the Cult of the Dragon and The Zhents, and just think the Red Wizards are some helpful magical item peddlers. While in the dalelands you can fight Drow and Shades, and farther off you can deal with Thay itself, Yaun-Ti, the Night Knives, and so on.

There's just so much potential, everywhere.

 

[Arnwyn]

My experience with the Realms is through DMing. What I liked about it is that it was big and detailed. As someone who has a career and life, I pretty much need a campaign world that's quite well detailed (as much as I would love to homebrew, life priorities do not allow for that). At the beginning, it was especially wonderful - each new product would describe an entirely new region of the Realms! When I noticed that (a couple of years after FR was released), I was hooked: FR1 Waterdeep & the North, FR2 Moonshae, FR3 Empires of the Sands, FR4 new magic items, FR5 Savage Frontier, etc. That's exactly what I want in a world.

I've also discovered that FR is so easy to tweak to your own tastes. Don't like something? It's easy to change. For example, I've ignored all the problems in Cormyr and the drow in Cormanthor hogwash. And it was easy to do. I've also lowered the magic a little with virtually no additional work required.

I think the schtick is as Jester says it is. That there is a rich history, and a reason for everything. There is, in fact, reasons why there are (only a few, really) high level NPCs. Where the magic items come from. Why people do what they do.

 

[jester47]

hmmm

I honestly never knew that. That does help me with some of my suspension of disbelief issues as well. Thanks!

Yeah, its hinted at in the OGB (cyclopedia of the realms p.4), completely missed in the 2e box, and clearly stated on p.6 of the FRCS under the heading A World Of Magic: Ancient Wonders.

Over all you dont get it unless you read the books cover to cover, which I have been doing since I decided to run the realms.

Aaron.