Reaper to produce pre-painted Plastic minis - Non-random

[MerricB]

I didn't go out looking for expensive examples of DDM figures. I actually did this sort of search 6 months ago, because I ran Sons of Grummsh and wanted accurate minis to represent the foes in that module (plus the mods I made to the adventure). I ended up using the hobgoblin archers instead, and I was lucky to have a couple of orc spearmen (spearorcs??) from the 2-3 packs of Harbinger I had bought back in the day. I recall King Obould ran me about $10, and about $17 for a wyvern, but I did get some orc sergeants and orc reavers or thugs or something relatively cheaply, including a harbinger orc warrior that one seller threw in as a bonus after having screwed up my original order.

Heh. I actually had all the minis I needed when I ran Sons of Gruumsh already. The joys of buying lot and lots of DDM.

A mini I don't use today is one I can use down the line.

Cheers!

 

[Kunimatyu]

Wow -- those prices are nice!

The prices for Larges -- $4-$6 -- are great, compared with Large Rare prices (and many large uncommon prices on the seconday market).

If Reaper can sell a mindflayer ("Bathalian", sorry) for $3-4 and a Beholder or Dragon for $10, Wizards is going to have a very serious problem, because people buy packs for chase rares, and if the chase rares are available from Reaper for <$10, people won't really buy packs. Even if Reaper only focuses on fantasy classics and never touches monsters even close to unique WotC IP (assuming you can copyright an eyeball monster when they've been in tons of videogames and other miniatures lines....), WotC won't be able to ignore them, and will have to adjust their business plans accordingly.

 

[JVisgaitis]

For someone using the minis for their role-playing, the fact that the mini is part of a collectable game is irrelevant. Comparing the cost of a pre-painted plastic mini to that of a similar pre-painted plastic minis is pretty reasonable. Saying they should only compared to unpainted metal minis is rather nonsensical. This is about what's the better value for the customer, after all.

True. Regardless of what its intended use is is certainly irrelevant. But comparing the price of a product that you purchase on the shelf at a local hobby store to something you can get on eBay is ludicrous.

Because I've seen Ptolus go for $50 on eBay does that mean if my company releases a 640 page full color hardcover at Gencon this year we should charge $50? Um, no. What company on earth looks at eBay as a bar to set their prices against? And what buyer would expect prices to be similar to those offered on a secondary market?

The fact that Reaper has the prices as low as they do and as comparable to what is on eBay is nothing short of amazing to me. I applaud them for what they are doing, hope they succeed, and will buy in droves.

Edit: provided they don't suck of course...

 

[MerricB]

Because I've seen Ptolus go for $50 on eBay does that mean if my company releases a 640 page full color hardcover at Gencon this year we should charge $50? Um, no. What company on earth looks at eBay as a bar to set their prices against? And what buyer would expect prices to be similar to those offered on a secondary market?

One of the oddities of the situation is that in the non-random minis business, you do have to pay attention to the secondary market, because that's what you're competing against.

Finding a lone copy of Ptolus for $50 is a big difference from seeing hundreds and hundreds of DDM figures being sold on e-bay for not very much. The first is an aberration that can be ignored. The second is competition.

Cheers!

 

[Glyfair]

But hey, if you need orc archers, sounds like Reaper has an edge--at least until WotC releases some in a future set.

Which is why I like Reaper doing this (and am glad the prices are as competitive as they are). Choice is always good. When I was trying to find a halfling wizard miniature it was nice to be able to look through Reaper, WotC and other miniature companies (and still didn't find quite the right figure for me).

DDM will probably always have the largest selection. However, a few years from now (assuming both lines are successful) you'll occasionally have the situation where DDM has the exact figure you want, but a very expensive OOP version, and Reaper has one that isn't perfect but cheaper.

I'm not crazy about shipping costs, but sales tax is no picnic either where I live...

Which is why I love living in Delaware I still feel like I'm being ripped off when I buy things in other states.

 

[JVisgaitis]

One of the oddities of the situation is that in the non-random minis business, you do have to pay attention to the secondary market, because that's what you're competing against.

This is all provided we are talking miniatures of the same quality, but the eBay market is a small slice and won't determine the outcome of either products success. The price disparity between eBay and what Reaper advertised is negligible even now. Plus, when Reaper's sets come out I'm sure you'll be able to get them on eBay for around 30% off. Do you think Reaper's minis will sell for shelf cost on eBay?

The war will be determined in game stores on the concept of buy what you want vs. buy what you get. They may not get your business or other eBay diehards, but they'll certainly get the business of casual purchasers like myself who don't really want to be burdened with eBay. I'd wager my demographic as the casual buyer is substantially larger then yours and provided we get good quality at the advertised prices, I agree that they will quickly become the most popular prepainted plastic miniatures line on the market.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't do DDM), but the Reaper line would seem to me to be no competition at all for the DDM market. Those buying large quantities of the randomized minis fall into three camps: the collector, the competitor, and the gamer. The collector will still have to buy either on the primary or secondary markets. The competitor that plays DDM in tournaments or game stores, etc., is still going to have to have the 'official' figure, right? I mean, the official imprimatur is the only difference between a chunk of pretty plastic and a cardboard token that says 'Beholder' on it. The serious DDM player isn't going to be satisfied with a Reaper alternative even if it were sanctioned.

That leaves the gamer, the RPG folks and the casual DDM player. But those aren't generally the primary market for the minis; they're more likely to accept alternatives and shop on the secondary market. That's the crowd that Reaper is going after.

 

[Felon]

Heh. I actually had all the minis I needed when I ran Sons of Gruumsh already. The joys of buying lot and lots of DDM. A mini I don't use today is one I can use down the line.

Yeah, I actually have a big ziploc marked "ORC HORDE". I was almost able to use every mini recommended in SoG. The orc archers got me.

 

[Felon]

This is all provided we are talking miniatures of the same quality, but the eBay market is a small slice and won't determine the outcome of either products success. The price disparity between eBay and what Reaper advertised is negligible even now. Plus, when Reaper's sets come out I'm sure you'll be able to get them on eBay for around 30% off. Do you think Reaper's minis will sell for shelf cost on eBay?

I hope they don't, but they're buying wholesale and the MSRP represents their profit margin. That may prove the downside of non-randomization: you don't get super-expensive rares, but no ultra-cheap 25 cent commons either, because the retailer's supplies will actually be well-rounded (i.e. they're not forced to take on piles of commons in order to get a good supply of rares).

It should not be disregarded that the prices of individual DDM minis are completely arbitrary. In fact, right now, there is a very odd situation with the DDM minis. At one time, it was economical to buy a complete set, which you could get for under $200. When WotC started price-jacking, the costs of buying boxes went up, the prices of cases went up, and the prices of buying the complete set went up. HOWEVER, the price of individual minis within from the set remained the same. So, when I went shopping for Unhalloweds, I had the option of paying $220 plus another $30 or so in shipping, or I could just buy them up individually. I actually came in at $190, including shipping and buying multiples of most commons and uncommons (dire wolves a-go-go).

Now, in regards to the issue with the orc archers that Twowolves brought up, there is a question about how long Reaper will keep a given set of minis in circulation. Will there be a point where they say "OK, we gotta move some resources from making orcs and skeletons and put them into new sets". Then will we be looking at $7 Reaper archers?

On a final note, I think it is a big error to refer to the secondary market as a "small slice". How many folks do you really think get their individual minis from local vendor in a strip mall? Those eBay shops represent retailers with a huge selection and they sell to a much broader customer base than the strip mall's walk-in crowd You think they don't buy more cases?

 

[Felon]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't do DDM), but the Reaper line would seem to me to be no competition at all for the DDM market.

"No competition"? I'm afraid you do stand corrected, at least insofar as saying the gaming demographic is not a significant chunk of DDM's customer base. It is, and that's why crappy little stirges were so damn hard to get a hold of. Gamers went nuts to amass their bloodsucking swarms. Looks like we're going to have a run on bats now with Unhallowed, I guess because they can stand in for stirges.

Merric, are the bats any good for skirmishing?