Reason for Tomes and Manuals below +5

[Jack Simth]

Ah! I got it! Both the reason you might find +1 Tomes/Manuals and how the +5 versions could be made with a level 17 character!

ADDING NEW ABILITIES

A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.

So you start by making a +1 Manual or Tome (Cost 1,250 gp + 5,100 XP), then you save it, and when you have more XP to spare, you upgrade it to a +2 ((2,500 gp + 10,200 XP)-(1,250 gp + 5,100 XP)=1,250 gp + 5,100 XP), and when you have more to spare, you upgrade it again to a +3 (upgrade from +2 to +3 costs 1,250 gp + 5,100 XP yet again), wash, rinse, repeat until +5.

So there is both a reason to make them (don't need to shell out 25,000 xp all at once, which means this can be done pre-epic for +5 Inherent bonuses ... without Calling Efreet or the like) and a reason why they might hang around for a while (if you use the +3 Manual or Tome, you will have to start over to get a +4 or +5; if the creator is interrupted for some reason - it gets stolen, the creator dies before it's finished, or the creator goes into dire financial straights and it get sold [but seriously, how many 17th level casters will have that problem?])

 

[Thanee]

It's pretty dumb, that they are priced in a linear fashion.

A +5 tome/manual is worth much more than 5 times the cost of a +1 tome/manual.

But, if I find one, even a +1, I'm going to use it anyways...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jack Simth]

It's pretty dumb, that they are priced in a linear fashion.

A +5 tome/manual is worth much more than 5 times the cost of a +1 tome/manual.

Yes... but you could get the same effect with 5 scrolls of Wish (or Miracle), so if they don't price them linerarly, there's little point in ever getting or making one ... unless, of course, it's still an obvious savings.... but then, you have that pesky little issue of how to re-scale it, so that one or the other is not rendered pointless (if a +1 Tome or Manual only cost, say, around 1000 xp while the +5 cost around 25000 xp, then Wish/Miracle for a +1 to +4 is pointless compared to the Tome or Manual, and vice-versa).

But, if I find one, even a +1, I'm going to use it anyways...

Bye
Thanee

If you find one, sure; but the basic idea was to answer the questions "why would anyone ever make one?" and "if made, why would one be left unused to be found?" If you had an 17th level Wish/Miracle and Wonderous Item enabled Wizard/Cleric, might you consider producing a +5 Tome or Manual in the above manner?

 

[Bryon_Soulweaver]

DUDE!!! I'm taking this idea (please).

 

[Jack Simth]

DUDE!!! I'm taking this idea (please).

Enjoy.

 

[TheGogmagog]

It makes sense. I don't play high level campaigns where this becomes a problem, but you would probably never find a +5 tome. The +1 thru +4 takes a significant amount of time to make and chances for theft and death. The +5 only has to be read, or in the rare case transfered to a highly valued party member.

Yes... but you could get the same effect with 5 scrolls of Wish (or Miracle)

Oh, FYI the 3.5 Miracle doesn't automatically raise the stat by one like Wish does. In place of the exp cost, Miracle is only like wish in the spell replication aspect. There is the 'Divine Intervention' portion of the spell, which I would consider akin to the 'effects beyond these' even for the ablilities that are inherent to Wish. It was probably an oversite that Miracle was left as a prerequisite.
I might be too harsh in my interpretation and You or your DM might still rule them the same way, but they are different spells with different effects.

 

[glass]

Good thinking, Jack!


glass.

 

[Jack Simth]

It makes sense. I don't play high level campaigns where this becomes a problem, but you would probably never find a +5 tome. The +1 thru +4 takes a significant amount of time to make and chances for theft and death. The +5 only has to be read, or in the rare case transfered to a highly valued party member.


Oh, FYI the 3.5 Miracle doesn't automatically raise the stat by one like Wish does. In place of the exp cost, Miracle is only like wish in the spell replication aspect. There is the 'Divine Intervention' portion of the spell, which I would consider akin to the 'effects beyond these' even for the ablilities that are inherent to Wish. It was probably an oversite that Miracle was left as a prerequisite.
I might be too harsh in my interpretation and You or your DM might still rule them the same way, but they are different spells with different effects.

Automatically? No... but there is the implication that it is, at least, possible, even though it isn't listed on the automatics:

Alternatively, a cleric can make a very powerful request. Casting such a miracle costs the cleric 5,000 XP because of the powerful divine energies involved. Examples of especially powerful miracles of this sort could include the following.

*

Swinging the tide of a battle in your favor by raising fallen allies to continue fighting.
*

Moving you and your allies, with all your and their gear, from one plane to another through planar barriers to a specific locale with no chance of error.
*

Protecting a city from an earthquake, volcanic eruption, flood, or other major natural disaster.

In any event, a request that is out of line with the deity’s (or alignment’s) nature is refused.

As gaining an automatic Inherent bonus is listed under Wish, the Tomes/Manuals and pretty much nowhere else, which costs the 5,000 xp over and above per point, I've usually ruled that Miracle works, but requires the 5000 xp version for a "very powerful request".

Of course, with scrolls, you usually have to put the XP in at creation ....