Rebuke and Command...a dragon?

[Nareau]

I'm asking this from a rules perspective; please cite relevant sources when you answer.

If a cleric has the Earth domain, he can "rebuke or command earth creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead." (PHB, 163). A blue dragon has the Earth subtype. Can a cleric of the appropriate level permanently control a blue dragon (giving it telepathic commands as a standard action)?

More generally, it seems as though this could give a cleric with the appropriate domain access to a fairly powerful permanent ally. Have any of you seen this come into play in a game? Can a cleric with two elemental domains control several dragons?

Critique this as an example:
12th level cleric with the Earth and Fire domains. He goes raiding a couple of dragon nests, and manages to get control of 2 wyrmling blue dragons (6 HD each; he automatically succeeds at the checks to control them, as even a 1 on the check would succeed, and he's twice their HD). He then moves on to a brass dragon nest, and gets two very young critters (again, 6 HD each).

I know this is an unlikely situation, and will likely have some bad consequences for the bold adventurer. And baby dragons aren't the most powerful allies in the world. But I'm curious to see if I'm reading the rules correctly.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Caliban]

I'm asking this from a rules perspective; please cite relevant sources when you answer.

If a cleric has the Earth domain, he can "rebuke or command earth creatures as an evil cleric rebukes undead." (PHB, 163). A blue dragon has the Earth subtype. Can a cleric of the appropriate level permanently control a blue dragon (giving it telepathic commands as a standard action)?

Yup. Of course, you can only permanently command your level in HD, and a Young Adult Blue Dragon has 18 HD. So your 18th level cleric can permanently control a CR 10 dragon.

More generally, it seems as though this could give a cleric with the appropriate domain access to a fairly powerful permanent ally. Have any of you seen this come into play in a game? Can a cleric with two elemental domains control several dragons?

Yup. I haven't seen it come up yet, but it's theoretically possible.

Critique this as an example:
12th level cleric with the Earth and Fire domains. He goes raiding a couple of dragon nests, and manages to get control of 2 wyrmling blue dragons (6 HD each; he automatically succeeds at the checks to control them, as even a 1 on the check would succeed, and he's twice their HD). He then moves on to a brass dragon nest, and gets two very young critters (again, 6 HD each).

Yippee. You now have four CR 2 minions. You can summon more powerful things than that (Summon Monster VI).

And momma is gonna be pissed.

I know this is an unlikely situation, and will likely have some bad consequences for the bold adventurer. And baby dragons aren't the most powerful allies in the world. But I'm curious to see if I'm reading the rules correctly.

Thanks in advance.

Yes you can do it. But given the power of dragons in relation to their actual HD, it's kind of cool but not overpowered. Especially when momma dragon finds out.

 

[Nareau]

OK. Thanks!

Yup. Of course, you can only permanently command your level in HD, and a Young Adult Blue Dragon has 18 HD. So your 18th level cleric can permanently control a CR 10 dragon.

Although the cleric has to be twice the creature's level to get control over it in the first place, right? So the 18th level cleric can only control a 9 HD dragon at best.

My next thought is: How best to munchkin this? Any suggestions on what the most powerful critters to go hunting for are?

 

[Orco42]

Yup you can.

I've got a cleric with Air, Earth, Water and Fire (takes 2 PrC's), and I am having fun with elementals. I tried to turn a dragon once but failed my roll. Since then I have gotten Sacred Armour and some turning feats so I should have no problem with dragons of an equal CR.

Too munckin get Sacred Armour (+2 to turning levels), and the feats from DoF. There is a Rod in there for about 20k( I forget the name), I think it increases turning for any creature.

I wish Amulet of Undead Turning worked... oh well.

 

[Crothian]

This is a really cool idea that I never realized before. I'm interesting in seeing other ideas or ways to use this.

 

[CRGreathouse]

My wizard/cleric of fire has been preparing to do this for some time...

 

[Caliban]

Yeah, I have a Mud Cleric (Earth/Water domains) in Living Arcanis. I'm looking forward to some fun in later levels as well.

 

[zorlag]

zorlag

Just imagine Epic-level cleric zapping red dragon... With proper feats and equipment I can see it happening.

Z.

 

[Leo_ASF]

What about white dragons?

Sorry if this post is closed...Which domain does a cleric need to rebuke or control/turn or destroy a White dragon, my party when to white dragon nest a a couple of newlyborn white dragons where trying to eat them the cleric of the party then realize that he he could turn fire creatures or rebuke water creatures (water domain) but on the white dragon descripcion is writen "cold" so can a cleric turn or rebuke a white dragon?? I alowed because the where goin to die if I dont and if he can turn red dragons... white dragons are de opposite so...

 

[Talonblaze]

Well, not entirely sure what do for the White dragons in terms of domain powers. There might be a book not from core that affects creatures of the Cold subtype.

I am a bit surprised such rules can be applied to creatures like dragons since there are a number of books with feats that give you the specific ability to turn/rebuke dragons like undead. Why would they put that there as an extra if one could just do it normally?

Which can be an alternative for you if you can find the appropriate feats. Either in the Draconomicon, Dragon Magic or Races of the Dragon. But don't quote me on that.