D&D 3E/3.5 Recreating 2e-style priests in 3.5

[the Jester]

Good one! I've also come up with Healer, Prophet and a few others... I'll edit the post above to include these.

Another idea occurred to me. How d'you think it would work to give them a certain number of domains at 1st level, and more as they leveled, and make them completely spontaneous casters? Say, ten domains at 1st level, and another one from their deity's list every even level? That way, they'd have an ever-growing repertoire...

Downside: it might be possible to game the granted power progression like that. Overlapping domains might make it so that someone could take a domain at a higher level, when the granted power kicks in, and never lose out on any spells (because they're in other domains that the character has).

We'll have to see how much I can individualize the domains, I guess... *ponders*

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Actually my first thought when reading the OP was to spread the domains across the career of the cleric..

Perhaps instead of having to worry too much about spell selection you could twist three concepts together:

- Specialization into 'spheres' of spells... limit access based on level.
- Clerics 'know' spells similar to sorcerers and can spontaneously cast
- Domain lists are in addition to the 'known' spells and grant special abilities. Character gains two domains at first level, + 1 every X levels after.

The domain lists don't need to be exhaustive, but the hard part would be cataloging which 'spere' a spell falls into.

'Portfolio' domains would have the granted powers of weapon and armor proficiency as well as something like toughness or mettle. This avoids having to tweak HD or BAB like with Nifft's Kordian priest.

In this manner a Kordian Priest and a Pelorian Priest would have the same mechanical 'bits'.. X Spheres, Y Domains, Z spells known... but the flavor of which Spheres, Domains, and spells would significantly affect the style of the character.

You could have some of the domains build on each other, or have prerequisites...altho that makes the system even more complex.

Definately interested in seeing where this goes

 

[the Jester]

All right, I'm now into what will prolly be the hardest part of this process: assigning all the existing cleric spells to domains. UGH!! This will take a while, but it's a good way to make sure I don't miss any... from the PH, at least!

That brings up another issue, btw- what about new spells? What if Complete Champion has a bunch of great spells that I want to integrate into my system??

I'm working on the answer- a way for a priest to swap a spell out of a domain for a new appropriate spell, at the cost of xp/time/money or some combination of the three.

More to come...

 

[chakken98]

Jester I must say it looks like you got your hands full on this one but I'd love to help were i can as the priest was one of my Fav's in 2nd.
As for the domain swaping for higher level spells; I remember in Hero's of Horror the Dread Necro had a advanced learning ability that allowed him to learn new spells at higher levels. Maybe you could use that as a starting point for your idea and expand into something that fits your need/wants.

 

[Kerrick]

I know you're pretty well dead-set on domains versus spheres, but I just thought I'd chime in and say that I think spheres would be a better idea. I, like the other posters here, thought it was a really great idea, and I wish they'd bring it back. I think having spheres will be a lot easier on you in the long run, really:

- They're not as rigid as domains;
- You can add spells as you wish to them without having to worry about swapping them out;
- You can freely overlap spells between spheres;
- Clerics will still be limited in their spell selection (if you give them, say, 2 major and 2-3 minor);
- You can still have cleric class skills based on spheres - all clerics gain a "base list" of skills - Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (arcana?, religion, the planes), and Profession. All others are dictated by their spheres - they get all skills from a major sphere, and can choose one skill from a minor sphere.
- You can also have "domain powers" based on the spheres - in this case, it'd be from one of the major spheres.

Wow... looking all that over, I think I'll do it msyelf, if you don't (yet another project to add to my list... ). The gods of our campaign have different spheres of influence and lesser and greater domains, so it wouldn't be hard for us to fix it up into spheres instead.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I agree with the initial premise....Specialty priests were the best thing to come from 2nd Ed. I'll be reading this thread with interest.

 

[the Jester]

The reason I'm set on domains vs. spheres is balance.

If all gods grant the same number of domains to their priests, it only balances if all domains are roughly equal. Spheres tend to have unequal numbers of spells, and some were just plain better than others (Tome of Magic 2e domain, I'm looking at you).

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Is there a problem with a mix? Domains would give access to sphere(s) meaning you could get yoru 10 'signature' spells and a baseline of backup spells. Depending on the domain design you could trade martial skill for sphere access and vice-versa.

This way you would not nessesarily have to recreate the entire system from scratch. The hardest part would be assigning the spells into the sphere groupings..and yes, some would be more powerful than others. The balance would come in with the domains granting access to a couple minor spheres or one major sphere.

You might even be able to use the old 2e books for the basis of assigning the spells...

I am considering doing a variant of this thought using Elements of Magic in which domains allow access to the noun/verb combinations.... {a half-baked thought of diong a skills-n-feats cleric...}
But since my intended group currently does not have a cleric, I have other things on my mind

 

[Kerrick]

If all gods grant the same number of domains to their priests, it only balances if all domains are roughly equal. Spheres tend to have unequal numbers of spells, and some were just plain better than others (Tome of Magic 2e domain, I'm looking at you).

I dunno... I sat down yesterday and start placing all the divine spells into spheres on an Excel spreadsheet; I've got All, Animal, Charm, Combat, Creation, Elemental, Healing, Necromantic, Plant, Protection, Summoning, Sun, Travel, Weather, and an unnamed "boosting" sphere so far (I'd like to add a few more); with only cleric and druid spells added in, they're all pretty equal. Charm and Creation are rather short, and Sun/Travel/Weather are a little short too, but those three are strong spheres. If you start adding in spells from other books, I'm sure you could easily get a nice spread of spells. Sure, they won't all be exactly the same, but I think with access two 2-3 major spheres and a couple minor ones, any cleric wouldn't have reason to complain.

Is there a problem with a mix? Domains would give access to sphere(s) meaning you could get yoru 10 'signature' spells and a baseline of backup spells. Depending on the domain design you could trade martial skill for sphere access and vice-versa.

This is a really cool idea - I rather like not having to get rid of domains, but still limiting the cleric's spell list a bit.

 

[el-remmen]

For a different perspective you might look at what I did, which was basically create a base class for each priesthood based on either the cleric model (which I dub the channeler for shorthand - as the granted powers tend to work off of turn undead times per day) or the druid model (which I call the changer for shorthand, as the granted powers work off of the wildshape model)

Domains remain basically the same (though I have changed some to suit taste) but I replaced domain powers with the granted powers - and "changers" don't get domains

and I also removed the spontaneous casting for healing spells - making it a granted power for some priesthoods and making it from a specific domain fitting the god, not default healing.

Lastly, I made a unique spell list for each priesthood.

You can read about it in more detail by following the links below:


Priest Class Overview
Examples of some Priest Classes