Recurring silly comment about Apocalypse World and similar RPGs

[MichaelSomething]

But I thought a good DM was suppose to put time pressure on PCs to prevent five minute workdays???

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Having already ordered DW, are the use of fronts widely used in other PbtA games?

I'm only on p2 of this thread, but you might get more traction if you start another thread specifically with all your DW questions

Short answer though - fronts as outlined in DW are not really used in other PbtA games; although other games have analogous procedures

 

[pemerton]

Short answer though - fronts as outlined in DW are not really used in other PbtA games; although other games have analogous procedures

Apocalypse World (original edition) uses fronts. The DW version is not identical, but seems pretty close.

I think the basic idea of fronts - prep that is used to give the GM something interesting to say, and that locks the GM in advance in respect of some of those things - is portable across a variety of RPGs. It works for Classic Traveller. I think it would work for Prince Valiant. And something like this also works in Torchbearer 2e.

 

[Lanefan]

Sure, you could do that. And that's fine. But when you get to the giant's lair, are they just going to be sitting around in their rooms waiting for the PCs to come slaughter them? Are none of them going to sound an alarm or even just cry out when the PCs kills them, thus alerting the rest of the giants as to the presence of intruders? For that matter, are they just doing nothing in their lair? IMO that's an incredibly boring way to play. Getting to the giant's lair can be as relaxed as you want, but actually moving around inside shouldn't be relaxed. The giants shouldn't be just saying "Huh, look, Bob's been killed. Oh well." By the time the PCs have killed two or four giants, the rest of the giants should be aware of their existence and fighting back.

Agreed on all counts. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any tension, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be all tension all the time, which is how the AW descriptions seem to be coming across. And sometimes the "bad guys" are just individuals going about their daily lives.

(in my current game they're up against raiding giants, hence my example, doing lots of hit-and-run attacks as they're not powerful enough to take on the whole lot at once. Last session the party were very disappointed to see the giants leaving en masse with all their stuff (quote: "That's our treasure walking away!") but couldn't pursue because a) 15 giants is still too many to take on all at once and b) the party's mission was in fact to take and hold the keep the giants just left)

OK? And you can do that just fine in PbtA as well. You choose to let the bad guys do their thing, fine. It just means that other events will happen that you may not be able to turn to your benefit.

Take the giants for instance. Maybe your bad guy decides to let them keep raiding, or wants to strike a deal with them. OK, cool. That just means there's going to be other things to be urgent about. Other adventuring groups who also want to stop the giants. One of the things the giants stole was an iron flask and they release a powerful demon or genie who has plans of their own. There's a volcano that's going to erupt that will affect your new giant allies and they're demanding you help them. While you're busy with your new giant friends, you're unaware of the flock of ice dragons that's just awakening.

Got it.

This doesn't have anything to do with PbtA, though. You can have a deep conversation while in the middle of combat, sure, and you can do it in both D&D and PbtA (and any other game as well). But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a sense of urgency. If you decide to spend some time gazing soulfully into each other's eyes, that means you're probably not actually fighting or otherwise taking care of the bad guys. "Talking is a free action" can only get you so far, after all.

I think of the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean III where Will and Elizabeth get Barbossa to marry them in mid-combat during the climactic fight scene - that was great stuff!

 

[Lanefan]

But I thought a good DM was suppose to put time pressure on PCs to prevent five minute workdays???

I don't see the 5-minute workday as being a problem, if that's what the characters would do; and IME most parties at mid-level or better have the capability to force a 5-mwd if they want to.

 

[FrogReaver]

So did you read the AW rules, miss the all the answers to the questions you're asking, and therefore reach the conclusion you describe here?

I’ll note that I’ve asked multiple times for those rules if they exist. As of now, not one person has provided them.

Instead I get replies like -
Those rules aren’t needed.
Have you read the rules?
Etc.

So I’m going to ask you directly does AW provide rules or rulebook guidance for how to handle situations where the player has the PC do an action that isn’t a move?

 

[Eyes of Nine]

So I’m going to ask you directly does AW provide rules or rulebook guidance for how to handle situations where the player has the PC do an action that isn’t a move?

Yes, it has been discussed and cited throughout this thread already, mostly by @pemerton but maybe others

 

[hawkeyefan]

I’ll note that I’ve asked multiple times for those rules if they exist. As of now, not one person has provided them.

Instead I get replies like -
Those rules aren’t needed.
Have you read the rules?
Etc.

So I’m going to ask you directly does AW provide rules or rulebook guidance for how to handle situations where the player has the PC do an action that isn’t a move?

Yes.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes, it has been discussed and cited throughout this thread already, mostly by @pemerton but maybe others

They’ve cited a rule about what to do when the players look to the GM for what’s next. Does no one recognize that’s not the same thing as asking what to do when a player has their pc act in a way that doesn’t trigger a move? Maybe. I dunno. But in any event, what I specifically asked about isn’t being addressed.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes.

Okay. Can you cite the rule (or guidance) for me, please?