Level Up (A5E) Redirect Maneuver - Can you make the attacker target itself?

[Stalker0]

1. It says another creature rather than any creature within 5 feet.

your other points make some good sense. However this sentence would mean you could just retarget the original person all over again, completely nullifying the maneuver.

So “another creature” is required language to make the maneuver work in the first place.

 

[Stalker0]

You're right. Hitting the attacker is reflected attack at the next tier.

When I saw this I thought it might be the perfect answer. However...not quite.

The next tier manuever is both stronger and weaker in some ways. The manuever automatically stops the attack (which is the biggest boost) but while it specifically calls out that the target hits themself, that's because you can ONLY use it to have the target hit itself. It actually doesn't give you the option of hitting anyone else. If it allowed both I feel it would be a slam dunk, but since it doesn't, the question remains murky.

So ultimately its not a perfect answer to whether Redirect can cause a target to hit itself.

Would love some official answers on this one, as my player is starting to use this one frequently.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

When I saw this I thought it might be the perfect answer. However...not quite.

The next tier manuever is both stronger and weaker in some ways. The manuever automatically stops the attack (which is the biggest boost) but while it specifically calls out that the target hits themself, that's because you can ONLY use it to have the target hit itself. It actually doesn't give you the option of hitting anyone else. If it allowed both I feel it would be a slam dunk, but since it doesn't, the question remains murky.

So ultimately its not a perfect answer to whether Redirect can cause a target to hit itself.

no, i'd argue reflect attack means redirect attack can't hit the attacker full stop - because then otherwise (aside from automatically stopping the attack) would it exist when redirect attack is more versatile?

 

[Stalker0]

no, i'd argue reflect attack means redirect attack can't hit the attacker full stop - because then otherwise (aside from automatically stopping the attack) would it exist when redirect attack is more versatile?

yes because of a key difference. Reflect attack AUTOMATICALLY stops the attack (no save required). The int save is only necessary to see if the attacker now hits themselves.

Automatic abilities are a big deal, you have a guarranteed stop of any 1 melee attack, no matter how strong. That is more than worth a few bumps in tier.

Now you might be right that it was also intended for "hit thyself" to be a higher tier ability, but its not guaranteed, because the automatic portion is such a strong part of the maneuver.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

yes because of a key difference. Reflect attack AUTOMATICALLY stops the attack (no save required). The int save is only necessary to see if the attacker now hits themselves.

Automatic abilities are a big deal, you have a guarranteed stop of any 1 melee attack, no matter how strong. That is more than worth a few bumps in tier.

i disagree. worth one bump, sure, but two (assuming you do lose the versatility of not being able to target adjacent creatures)? nah, especially not at higher levels when attacking creatures will easily have 4+ attacks and do significant damage with each. it's good, but i don't think it's tier 3 -> tier 5 good if it's reducing the targets you can direct it towards.

actually, wait, i will be fair - reflect attack doesn't grant huge or larger creatures or creatures who have already been subject to it that combat advantage on the save. the removal of that could be part of it. i'll give you that.

 

[Anonymous3]

yes because of a key difference. Reflect attack AUTOMATICALLY stops the attack (no save required). The int save is only necessary to see if the attacker now hits themselves.

I thought a save was required before any benefit:

"When you are hit with a melee weapon attack, you can use your reaction to force the attacker to make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failure, you take no damage and the attack targets another creature within 5 feet."