Reflex Saves & Movement

[Centaur]

I hope this topic is different enough to justify a new thread as opposed to continuing from a recent one Held and reflex saves .

I have three scenarios regarding reflex saves and the ability to move or not move. I would like to hear other peoples opinions on how they would handle these scenarios.

1. If a character is inside the area of effect of a fireball, or similar area of effect, and makes his reflex save. Should he be considered to have Moved out of the affected area ?

2. If a character is in a room that is smaller than the area covered by an area effect spell such as fireball, and can't get out. Should he be allowed to make a reflex save.

3. A character is caught flat-footed or surprised in an open field by an area effect spell such as fireball. Does he get a reflex save or is fully affect by the surprise attack.

 

[shilsen]

1. No

2. Yes

3. Yes, he gets a save.

 

[Norfleet]

1. No. A character who saves against an area blast can be considered to have rolled with the impact such as to minimize the damage taken, found an obstacle to shield him from the blast, etc. If saving allowed or forced the saver to leave the area, that would, in effect, have given him a free move, which can be quite a considerable distance when it comes to fireballs. This has huge exploit potential.

2. Yes, because leaving the area isn't required to make a reflex save

3. Yes, he still gets a save. Kinda funny how it works, but them's the rules, eh?

 

[Hypersmurf]

At the risk of sounding redundant: No, Yes, Yes.

The only qualifier I'll make is to number 2 - if he's in a 10'x10' room and a 40' diameter fireball goes off, he gets a save. If he's in a 2'x2' tunnel, such that he does not have room to move, he doesn't.

As long as he can move freely within his 5'x5' square, he's good to go.

-Hyp.

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Blade Barrier

I agree with the previous answers, but the following scenario puzzes me.

Blade Barrier:

Creatures within the blade barrier when it is invoked take the damage as well. They can negate the damage with a successful Reflex saving throw, provided they can and do physically leave the area of the blades by the shortest possible route. Once the barrier is in place, anything entering or passing through the blades automatically takes damage.

Does this mean,
a) they make the save immediately, and leave immediately, and the movement is free, or
b) they make the save immediately, and leave immediately, and the movement counts against their next action, or
c) they wait till they next turn, taking no damage until then; at that point, they leave, and can attempt the save, or
d) some other possibility.

c) seems most likely, but what happens if they aren't able to get out of the area (say, they are in a slippery area and fail a balance roll and fall over)?

If the correct answer is NOT c, how come you get a save to leap up to 30' out of the blade barrier, but you don't get a save to leap out of the force cage (at most 10') or a spherical wall of ice, for example.

Darren

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Blade Barrier

Blade Barrier:

Heh.

This thread now has a very, very poor chance of staying on topic.

-Hyp.

 

[Destil]

We could also throw in Wall of Iron for kicks, Hyp...

 

[Prizdar]

Place in....

Divine Storm to. That's what started the other thread on a held monster.

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Re: Re: Blade Barrier

Heh.

This thread now has a very, very poor chance of staying on topic.

-Hyp.

Have I committed a faux pas? I may have registered a while ago, but I've only been a regular visitor the last few weeks.

Darren

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

We could also throw in Wall of Iron for kicks, Hyp...

Aha, you've just reminded me. The wall of ice (hemispherical) allows a save to leap out. This prompts me to repeat my question: can you leap out of the blade barrier immediately, or do you wait till next turn?

Darren