Reflex Saves & Movement

[rhammer2]

For spells that require you to be out of the area, if you make the save when it is cast you must move out as the first thing you do during your initiative or be subject to the spell effect. You do not move when it is not your initiative, and if the character was delaying I would make him use his delay immediately.

Aha, you've just reminded me. The wall of ice (hemispherical) allows a save to leap out. This prompts me to repeat my question: can you leap out of the blade barrier immediately, or do you wait till next turn?

Darren

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

For spells that require you to be out of the area, if you make the save when it is cast you must move out as the first thing you do during your initiative or be subject to the spell effect. You do not move when it is not your initiative, and if the character was delaying I would make him use his delay immediately.

That's what I ws leaning towards, but with Wall of Ice, that can't be the case. The ice forms solid - by the time it's your initiative, other people may already have started smashing through that solid ice.

Darren

 

[rhammer2]

Remember that the initiative system is just for ease of use. Everything that occurs in a round is actually happening at the same time. If the person makes their save then they will move clear of the ice before it forms on their initiative.

That's what I ws leaning towards, but with Wall of Ice, that can't be the case. The ice forms solid - by the time it's your initiative, other people may already have started smashing through that solid ice.

Darren

 

[demiurgeastaroth]

Remember that the initiative system is just for ease of use. Everything that occurs in a round is actually happening at the same time. If the person makes their save then they will move clear of the ice before it forms on their initiative.

That's a bit too abstract for me. It also doesn't explain why you can't do that with forcecage.
For me, it would have to be that the ice mght take a second or two for the ice to form, allowing someone to leap out (I'd let them do it immediately, and count the movement against their next turn), but the force cage is instantly there <poof> 0- by the time you notice it, it's too late.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Remember that the initiative system is just for ease of use. Everything that occurs in a round is actually happening at the same time. If the person makes their save then they will move clear of the ice before it forms on their initiative.

So...

The initiative order goes Wally the Wizard, Fred the Fighter, Gnorman the Gnoll.

Fred is 70 feet away from Gnorman - too far away to Charge.

Wally casts Wall of Ice, but Gnorman makes his save. The only way he can move to not-be-trapped is 10 feet straight towards Wally and Fred. But it's not his initiative turn yet.

On Fred's initiative - can he Charge Gnorman, who would be 60 feet away if every moves simultaneously, but under the initiative system normally isn't?

-Hyp.

 

[Destil]

D&D does not deal with simultaneous action well (or at all). If memory serves BRC or Monte mentioned, in a time stop discussion, that one of the basics the designers stuck to is to avoid it whenever possible . Thus I think making them move on the init count the spell is cast works best. Counting distance moved against their following turn is really a matter of group preference.

 

[rhammer2]

Simultaneity is difficult to handle in a game, the initiative system is the game mechanic used to simplify the game. Dispite this, everything that happens in a round is occuring at the same time and you as DM are within your rights to spring effects at the end of a round that someone triggered at the beginning of the round (see DMG page 62, Simultaneity). For area effect spells that allow a save to not be in the area when they are cast it is best to make the characters that make the save move as the first thing they do in the round. If they choose not to do so they become subject to the spell dispite making the initial save, it becomes the character's choice.

D&D does not deal with simultaneous action well (or at all). If memory serves BRC or Monte mentioned, in a time stop discussion, that one of the basics the designers stuck to is to avoid it whenever possible . Thus I think making them move on the init count the spell is cast works best. Counting distance moved against their following turn is really a matter of group preference.