Reforms so you don't need healing surges

[Naszir]

Sounds to me like you're talking about a block or a parry or a dodge. Those types of things do enhance the game, and I'd be happy to see them and to have fighters be better at them.

I doubt that would satisfy those who want unbiquitous healing, however.

Yes, that is true. But this way you can still have clerical healing but have it more limited.

I would also advocate more ways for temporary hit points to be involved. Second wind should be considered temporary hit points.

I believe clerical healing fits better in between combats than during them. Sure there should still be a few ways to do clerical healing during combat but if we want to get away from the cleric being a healbot limited clerical healing during combat needs to be implemented.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I would be just as satisfied if the way martial classes were viable was by avoiding damage.

The thing about needing clerics in D&D was that fighters and rogues have generally not been able to avoid getting hit. If an all martial party is viable because they reduce the amount of damage they receive that would be good.

It isn't like it isn't unprecedented either. Mages in prior editons could pick the right spells for the party to avoid almost all damage, and thus do without a cleric. He didn't have much room for anything else.

Likewise it might be good to have fighters who aren't quite as good at killing, but are much better at defending themselves and others.

I am a fan of Trailblazer's implementation of blocking and parrying, which is simple and rewards high BAB. I think it's one of the best things they did. To me, it added what was indeed some much needed reward for advancing as a fighter, and it could be expanded upon with feats and class abilities. I hope the 5e designers looked at it.

Yes, that is true. But this way you can still have clerical healing but have it more limited.

I would also advocate more ways for temporary hit points to be involved. Second wind should be considered temporary hit points.

I believe clerical healing fits better in between combats than during them. Sure there should still be a few ways to do clerical healing during combat but if we want to get away from the cleric being a healbot limited clerical healing during combat needs to be implemented.

I don't mind the occasional boost of temporary hp.

I like clerics to run the gamut depending on what the player wants to do. I had one who was 100% heal focused and often outpaced the damage enemies were doing but rarely took any action other than healing in combat (and had fun). I've had others who only healed as a chore after combat, which is fine. Some of my clerics/druids rarely heal anyone at all, which is also fine.

 

[Hassassin]

Both AC and HP already model dodging and parrying. Why should there be yet another mechanic for it?

 

[ferratus]

Both AC and HP already model dodging and parrying. Why should there be yet another mechanic for it?

To allow people to DM's to hit players, while still allowing a way to reduce damage of course. This is the thread for "healing reform".

Missing all the time gets very frustrating if you are a DM and your powerful monsters miss all the time and look pathetic.

 

[Hassassin]

To allow people to DM's to hit players, while still allowing a way to reduce damage of course. This is the thread for "healing reform".

Missing all the time gets very frustrating if you are a DM and your powerful monsters miss all the time and look pathetic.

And higher attack, but lower damage doesn't work because?

 

[Naszir]

Both AC and HP already model dodging and parrying. Why should there be yet another mechanic for it?

Because narratively I think they are a little difficult to deal with.

I think the narrative gets a little weird when a character takes minor damage from an attack and then describes how he just narrowly avoided something that would have crushed him to a pulp. But this is currently how we are expected to see hit points.

I believe what I am trying to do is model the dodging and parrying a little better. Put some of that mechanical ability into the hands of the players while also meshing it with the narrative.

I would even like to take this a little further by making heroic surges a combination of action points and healing surges.

I'd like to see lower the hit points overall but allow the players those big moments for their characters to avoid or minimize a deadly attack.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Both AC and HP already model dodging and parrying.

Perhaps they shouldn't.

Besides, the extra dodge bonus or DR from a combat reaction represents a special extra effort, not the entirety of the character's effort to avoid harm.

Conceptual issues aside, a mechanic that puts more power in the hands of the players and gives the martial classes an advantage they didn't previously have can be good for the game.

 

[MooMan68]

Perhaps they shouldn't.

Besides, the extra dodge bonus or DR from a combat reaction represents a special extra effort, not the entirety of the character's effort to avoid harm.

Conceptual issues aside, a mechanic that puts more power in the hands of the players and gives the martial classes an advantage they didn't previously have can be good for the game.

I just can't figure out a way for this to make much sense.
Hit points already represent "ability to avoid a blow", that's why fighters get more than magic users.

If it's a mechanic that lets them "put in an extra effort", why would they not use it? And if they are using it all the time, how is it different from just giving them extra hit points?

If hit points represent actual damage, and this is the ability to avoid damage, then you seem to have a vitality/wound point system with the points renamed.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Hit points already represent "ability to avoid a blow", that's why fighters get more than magic users.

Some versions of the rules have said so to varying extents, but I don't take this as being a given. The definition of hit points is one of the fundamental problems with D&D rules.

If it's a mechanic that lets them "put in an extra effort", why would they not use it? And if they are using it all the time, how is it different from just giving them extra hit points?

They would always use it and it would be an assumed part of combat. Here's the thing: it's a resource. Just using the TB combat rxns as an example, you only get one per round at the start, and it goes up to four at a rate similar to iterative attacks IIRC. A reaction can be a dodge, block, attack of opportunity, or possibly another action. You will probably suffer more attacks in a round than you have reactions to use, and you have to choose how to spend those reactions.

Thus, a simple but significant strategic element is added. If you take an attack of opportunity, you lose a chance to dodge an attack yourself. If you dodge and get hit, you'll wish you'd blocked. If you dodge an enemy's extra powerful smite, you'll feel pretty good about yourself. This concept is decidedly not the same thing as adding more hit points, but if your goal is to make fighters and their ilk more powerful, more tactical, and more fun, this is one potential way of doing it.

If hit points represent actual damage, and this is the ability to avoid damage, then you seem to have a vitality/wound point system with the points renamed.

D&D already has a vitality/wound system; it's just poorly implemented (subdual damage or nonlethal damage; which are hidden and don't get used much). A well-implemented one has been a common topic of discussion in this forum.