Regarding Enhancement Bonuses on Weapons

[Shin Okada]

A non-magical item with a spell on it is not a magical item. A weapon with GMW is therefore not a magical weapon. It's a non-magical weapon with a spell on it. Not only is this important in this case but also for area effect dispel magic.

So, that clause of +2 hardness and +10 hitpoints, from either location, does not apply for GMW or MW.

While that sword is not a magic item, it is a magic weapon.

From SRD "Damage Reduction"

Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, by magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality),

Oops, Hypersmurf was much faster.

 

[Dross]

Slightly of topic Q re HP and hardness

From the 'Breaking and Entering' section:

Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons: Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points.

It's not only found in the magic items section.

But even here, it falls under the subheading of 'Magic Weapons', so it could easily be argued that a nonmagical masterwork weapon does not benefit. A GMW'd weapon, however, is a magic weapon with an enhancement bonus, so the rule applies.

-Hyp.

I wonder,
would anyone rule that HP and hardness of a weapon with GMW could be considered temporary HP and hardness that goes away and the end of the spell? I'm not sure by RAW that's allowed or disallowed but it could make for an interesting situation.

Dross

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wonder,
would anyone rule that HP and hardness of a weapon with GMW could be considered temporary HP and hardness that goes away and the end of the spell? I'm not sure by RAW that's allowed or disallowed but it could make for an interesting situation.

I'd think it more analogous to hit points from an enhancement bonus to Constitution.

-Hyp.

 

[azhrei_fje]

A non-magical item with a spell on it is not a magical item. A weapon with GMW is therefore not a magical weapon. It's a non-magical weapon with a spell on it. Not only is this important in this case but also for area effect dispel magic.

Defend this assertion.

Hmm. If enlarge person is cast on a human, does s/he become a magical beast? If grease is cast on a floor or wall, does the wall or floor become magical? If light is cast on a coin, does the coin become magical?

IMC, I would say that the items listed above do not become magical items. Granted, they will have a magical aura and hence detect as magical, but that doesn't make them magical items, any more than a creature's eyesight telling them a room is empty means that the room really is empty. It's a matter of appearances. IMC, magical item is a phrase reserved for objects that are imbued with magic during the creation process. Even a permanency spell cannot create a "magical item" after-the-fact (although perhaps a wish spell might).

If you decide that they are magical, you will have some decisions to make regarding arbitration of detect spells, among other things. This gets into the same realm as "absolute evil vs. relative evil" and how the detect evil spell works. Not only is there no clear answer to that, but even the game authors seem to disagree.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ah - but whether or not it's a "magic item" is irrelevant, since we have a definition of what makes something a "magic weapon."

 

[Hypersmurf]

If light is cast on a coin, does the coin become magical?

Can it be moved with a Mage Hand spell?

If I cast Greater Magic Weapon on an oak club, is it valid target for Shillelagh?

-Hyp.

 

[FEADIN]

I wonder,
would anyone rule that HP and hardness of a weapon with GMW could be considered temporary HP and hardness that goes away and the end of the spell? I'm not sure by RAW that's allowed or disallowed but it could make for an interesting situation.

Dross

Yes, I made this conclusion in the other thread, the magic of the spell "harden" the material, it absorb the sundering stike and go away with it, like temporary hp.
It seems easier to see the magic "protecting" the weapon than to see the weapon breaking when the magic is gone.

 

[Infiniti2000]

A weapon with GMW is a weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality; it is, therefore, a magic weapon.

Whether or not it's a magical item is irrelevant.

So, then if I take a non-masterwork weapon and cast magic weapon on it, the weapon becomes masterwork for the duration of the spell? Not that that does any good, of course, but it's the principle that matters.

Additionally, if I cast an extended GMW on a non-magical (even non-masterwork given the above), I can then add a permanent special ability?

And just to continue your pedantic approach (i.e. differentiating 'weapon' from 'item'), the Magical Weapons section frequently refers to the weapon as an item. This makes it pretty clear that magic weapons are magic items. Just click the link and search on "item". If what you say is correct, that magic weapons are not magic items (i.e. not wholly contained, as it were, in the set of magic items), then you need to explain those references.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Additional Note: What you are saying (Hyp et al) is not inconsistent as long as you consider a GMW'd weapon to be a magic item and apply that definition as necessary (e.g. dispel magic). It also applies to any other spell that affects an item.

I don't agree, though, and it seems like you do, in fact, want to rule it inconsistently (i.e. GMW creates a magic item, but light doesn't).

 

[irdeggman]

So, then if I take a non-masterwork weapon and cast magic weapon on it, the weapon becomes masterwork for the duration of the spell? Not that that does any good, of course, but it's the principle that matters.

Additionally, if I cast an extended GMW on a non-magical (even non-masterwork given the above), I can then add a permanent special ability?

And just to continue your pedantic approach (i.e. differentiating 'weapon' from 'item'), the Magical Weapons section frequently refers to the weapon as an item. This makes it pretty clear that magic weapons are magic items. Just click the link and search on "item". If what you say is correct, that magic weapons are not magic items (i.e. not wholly contained, as it were, in the set of magic items), then you need to explain those references.

The enhancement bonus from a magic weapon overlaps with that of being masterwork.

WEAPONS
Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

So making a GMW does not automatically make it a masterwork weapon.