Reincarnation and Level Adjustments

[Scion]

I suppose if one was going to give an LA for reincarnation then they should also get LA while they are polymorphed as well, it makes sense for the same reasons given after all

 

[glass]

My attitude is he gets the LA (and the bugbear has racial HD too, right?), but he doesn't lose any levels (apart from the one specified in the spell, obviously). He just won't be levelling up for a while, until his XP total catches up with his ECL.

This is how I approach any cases of LAs changing, whether due to reincarnation, a template, or whatever.


glass.

 

[blargney the second]

Good thoughts here! Although we don't give extra XP to lower-level PCs, we have in the past run a solo adventure or two to help them catch up. I think maybe it's time to help him out a bit here.

And you've persuaded me further that the best course is to ditch the LA. Erywin is the final arbitrator for this game - it comes down to his decision.

-blarg

EDIT: (glass posted while I was writing) I think I'd follow Scion's suggestion about basing reincarnate along the lines of polymorph. No extra hit die while polymorphed, no extra hit die while reincarnated. Besides, it just gets too bloody complicated, and ultimately means the player won't be playing the character that he really wants to play. Me = simple.

 

[Thanee]

Good thoughts here! Although we don't give extra XP to lower-level PCs, we have in the past run a solo adventure or two to help them catch up. I think maybe it's time to help him out a bit here.

Then change this. Now!

There's a very good reason why WotC have implemented the FRCS XP system in the 3.5 core rules. Because it's much better!

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Polymorph is a temporary effect, which is already paid for in your class levels, that's not really comparable.

 

[cmanos]

lets see...character is 20000xp behind other characters and has a +2 LA on top of this....let me see if I can rationalise things here a bit.


Say you have a party of 4 level 15 characters. 3 have 105000 and one has 85000xp. So one is actually 13th level, and he is now the one who got the +2LA. (Level 14 would get 1575)

Before the unlucky reincarnation, for 1 CR15 monster, the L15's would gain 1125xp and the 1 L13 would gain 1950xp.

After 5 such encounters, the trailer would be L14, (without the +2LA for being bugbear.) After 10 more encounters, the lagger would be L15 and the other three would be around 15K from L16.

Take into effect a LA adjustment at levels higher than one...I don't think I would take away character levels, but would definitely consider the alternate rules for LA in the UA, which lessens the penalty at higher levels.

Use the experience rules in the 3.5DMG. They reward lower experienced characters more than higher experienced characters to lessen the gap.

 

[lukelightning]

I think I'd apply the LA on a case-by-case basis. I'd definitely ignore racial HD; if you get reincarnated as a bugbear you don't get 3 HD but I'd probably apply a +1LA since bugbears get a lot of bonuses: great natural armor, great stats, and scent; those are all useful for any class. If you come back as a hobgoblin I'd probably not apply an LA; as a gnoll I would apply an LA if you were a fighter-type but not a wizardy guy.

 

[Erywin]

A few things Blarg forgot to mention about XP. We aren't currently running an XP system based on the creatures overcome. We have taken and adapted the XP system that Wulf Ratbane's group uses, where you gain XP on your contribution to the game. We have set it up so that everybody gets about the same XP, give or take depending on how much they help each other.

I can see Thanee's point about the 3.5 XP system but we want our characters to level slower than the base system, I also believe in rewarding characters for thier actions (reinforcing the good, the bad usually is taken care of by character death...). I might sit down with Blarg and rework the XP system again, my attempt is to bring everybody to about the same lvl +/- 1lvl. But, the main thing is that when they are all the same lvl I would like them to be of approx. equal power.

If anybody would like to see the XP sheets we use for each session email me: erywin25 at hotmail dot com

And yeah the main thing bugging me is that this is the players 4th death... and the only other character to die has died once (but that was facing a large red dragon).

Thanks for the comments, I will let everybody know what the decision is. Keep on discussing, really enjoying the different point of views.

Cheers,
E

 

[Cabral]

My personal ruling would be that you apply the ECL changes insofar as xp needed to achieve next level; not for figuring out his current level. Any differences in power should eventually correct themselves

 

[Thanee]

A few things Blarg forgot to mention about XP. We aren't currently running an XP system based on the creatures overcome. We have taken and adapted the XP system that Wulf Ratbane's group uses, where you gain XP on your contribution to the game. We have set it up so that everybody gets about the same XP, give or take depending on how much they help each other.

I can see Thanee's point about the 3.5 XP system but we want our characters to level slower than the base system, I also believe in rewarding characters for thier actions (reinforcing the good, the bad usually is taken care of by character death...). I might sit down with Blarg and rework the XP system again, my attempt is to bring everybody to about the same lvl +/- 1lvl. But, the main thing is that when they are all the same lvl I would like them to be of approx. equal power.

It's really quite simple.

Just award XP as normal. Give characters at a lower level +20% XP for every level they are below the highest.

And figure in the LA as it is done normally, if you want to judge the characters by their actual power, as long as the change was beneficial (if it's not really an advantage for the character, don't apply the LA).

Bye
Thanee

 

[seans23]

I think I'd apply the LA on a case-by-case basis. I'd definitely ignore racial HD; if you get reincarnated as a bugbear you don't get 3 HD but I'd probably apply a +1LA since bugbears get a lot of bonuses: great natural armor, great stats, and scent; those are all useful for any class. If you come back as a hobgoblin I'd probably not apply an LA; as a gnoll I would apply an LA if you were a fighter-type but not a wizardy guy.

I'd never apply a level adjustment from a reincarnation, unless I totally changed the creatures listed in the reincarnation table. You got bugbear? Good for you. It's only a 1% chance. Win some, lose some, yadda yadda

I also wouldn't drop the human feat. If you had, for example, skill focus (concentration), why would you suddenly lose that? Doesn't make sense.
We've house-ruled reincarnations so that you still keep a little bit of your previous race. Mostly traits that are social or mental in nature are kept. Traits that are physical (e.g. dark vision) are lost. You can check it out here:

House Reincarnation Rules