Reincarnation and Level Adjustments

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well, for me, you don't get the racial HD and the LA just goes away.

There's a reason Bugbear is 1%. It's a crap shoot.

Nobody is suggesting that you should get a couple of free levels for getting shafted coming back as a Kobold. That's the weird and wacky nature of the spell. You might come back as something entirely different.

--fje

 

[Scion]

I'm not saying HD is an ability.

well, you asked about, 'and the like' when that is clearly under the 'gain all abilities associated with its new form' so..... if you didnt mean that 'and the like' which other one is in the text?

Also, the extra hd, to me, would be a major penalty completely outstripping the penalty of the LA in magnitude. Sure, you get a little back from it, but you lose so much it is crazy..

Take a fighter type. If you give him the full hd and LA then he is out 4 levels of abilities and gains back 3 humanoid hd (likely giving less than his normal hd). Definately not a good trade.


I suppose one could get rid of the random chance and just have the dm pick something appropriate and give the bonuses as appropriate also relative to how much they lost. Much more dm intervention and supervision involved, but likely a much more balanced package in the end.

 

[Thanee]

Well, since that line is completely arbitrary and subject to change at any time I would have to say that your line doesnt make any sense.

Well, yeah, that makes sense.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Plane Sailing]

Some posts in this thread have been reported, but to date everyone is staying on the side of the angels, I'm sure this wonderful state of affairs will continue, right?

Cheers

 

[blargney the second]

Just award XP as normal. Give characters at a lower level +20% XP for every level they are below the highest.

And figure in the LA as it is done normally, if you want to judge the characters by their actual power, as long as the change was beneficial (if it's not really an advantage for the character, don't apply the LA).

That's a fairly straight-forward solution that might just solve our problem. We want him to catch back up to the rest of the party eventually. Combined with a solo adventure or two, that should do the trick nicely.

Overall the change is strictly beneficial for this character: +1 to two saves, +1 to his primary attack, +2 to damage, +4 to AC, +7 hps, and Darkvision are quite a potent package. At the level we're currently at, I think it warrants a solid LA +1. He dropped his 10 human skill points in such a way that his skill modifiers are all amost exactly the same, and he lost the Precise Shot feat for which he had neglected to take the Point Blank Shot prerequisite. Nothing really lost, and benefits roughly analogous to a level gained in ranger.

-blarg

 

[Cabral]

well, you asked about, 'and the like' when that is clearly under the 'gain all abilities associated with its new form' so..... if you didnt mean that 'and the like' which other one is in the text?

Also, the extra hd, to me, would be a major penalty completely outstripping the penalty of the LA in magnitude. Sure, you get a little back from it, but you lose so much it is crazy..

Take a fighter type. If you give him the full hd and LA then he is out 4 levels of abilities and gains back 3 humanoid hd (likely giving less than his normal hd). Definately not a good trade.


I suppose one could get rid of the random chance and just have the dm pick something appropriate and give the bonuses as appropriate also relative to how much they lost. Much more dm intervention and supervision involved, but likely a much more balanced package in the end.

Actually, I mentioned "and the like" because it left things open ended. And, what is apparently my house ruling on reincarnate would leave the fighter with more HD (8th level fighter dies, loses a level comes back a bugbear... so 3 levels of monstrous humanoid + 6 remaining levels of fighter and +1 LA. The drawback is the effective XP debt; the amount of xp he now has to earn to advance a level. Though, you could prorate the XP, ie, each level now takes 50% more to earn until you're "caught up". (this would be more fun for anyone who finds themselves with a suddenly higher ECL)

As for the player recieving an LA or not, I still have not wavered from my initial stance. The LA from a bugbear should still apply. He's getting +4 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, Darkvision, +3 natural armor, and possibly +4 Move silently. This definately makes him more powerful than a human of the same level.

As a side note, this house rule would not work the same way in my games. When a PC wants to play a race with racial HD, I strip the race down to no racial HD and just an LA. See my thread on Toughness as a bonus feat/replacement...

 

[Lamoni]

I think I'd add in the LA. However, I'd also give him the equal number of experience points that the LA would otherwise be worth. Rolling that 1% and coming back as a bugbear should be something to be rewarded. Just tacking on a +LA without giving experience would stink.

Let's say you die at level 10 with 50k experience (as a human)...
a) Come back as a human at level 9 with 40.5k experience (level up after 4.5k more XP)
b) Come back as a bugbear at level 9 with ECL 10 with 40.5k experience (level up after 14.5k more XP)
c) Come back as a bugbear at level 8 with ECL 9 with 40.5k experience (level up after 4.5k more XP)

I don't like option b because it would be forever until you could level up again. I don't like option c because you lose two class levels. So I'd rule it this way instead...

d) Come back as a bugbear at level 9 with ECL 10 with 50k experience (level up after 5k more XP)

The plusses of coming back as a bugbear is that you don't really lose any power and your XP remains the same (you lose a class level for the bugbear abilities). The drawback is that if you really wanted to get your class ability that comes at 12th level and the campaign is going to end when you are ECL 13. A re-incarnated bugbear would only barely get the ability before the campaign was over. The plusses outweigh the drawbacks, but like I said... you should be rewarded for getting that 1%.

If you let them become a bugbear without tacking on a LA, then their character remains the same as my option d... the only difference is that you don't really have an accurate sense of the party's power. In conclusion, I don't think the rules are clear what you should do. I prefer not adding a level adjustment to not penalize the player, but then I came up with a house rule that does add LA, but is an almost equivalent result for the player... it just makes the job of DM easier and allows for a more accurate rewarding of XP.

 

[Cabral]

I would never run with option c ... though I might be tempted to go with 1 negative level per +1 LA ...