Reinventing fantasy cliches

Dlsharrock

First Post
Something I just thought of last night during a game session. Alignment - isn't that a cliche? Or is it that alignment perpetuates cliches. For example: Dexter, breaking the psychopathic preconception cliches. What is he? Chaotic Evil? Lawful Evil? Evil... Good?

Could you have a Dexter character in D&D?
Beware spoilers folks. Some people still don't know he's an alien and that it's all a dream ;)

Edit: There's a similar themed thread running here I notice (about Evil/Good alignment issues, this time with direct regard to a whorring paladin).
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=113405
 
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Afrodyte

Explorer
Disharrock,

I think alignment is a D&D trope, not one of fantasy in general. However, the idea of races being innately good or evil is something that keep cropping up.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Dexter is definitely lawful- he lives by a strict code.

He does have homicidal impulses, which would lead to thinking he's evil.

But despite his homicidal impulses, his code dictates that he may only kill the guilty. His actions are at least good. This gets him at least Neutral or Good in D&D.

One could argue that his impulses mean he has a hidden agenda that marks him as evil...but its not that he's doing good to hide an agenda, he's doing good to combat & control his inner demons.
 

Mallus

Legend
The following is my take on "reinventing fantasy cliches". I clipped it from the Story Hour based on my current long-running campaign. It's the introduction to a... ahem... scholarly lecture on race being given in the capital city, which captures the flavor of the game fairly well...


"“So many species, subspecies, kin and kind in CITY! Putting a name to all would seem an insurmountable task. Better to put them to the sword. At least that would simplify the next census. But I am not here to discuss social policy. I come to enumerate the races of non-men, not to bury them.

The great novelist Marzel Joost put it thusly; “Counting the races that dwell in CITY is like counting needles in a stack of pins. Prickly, tedious work that’s hard on the eyes and likely to draw blood.” Consider that poor Joost was trying only to recall those nonhumans he met over the course of his brief, alcohol foreshortened life. I hope your seats are comfortable. We may be here a while.

That's not counting the Oddities and the Entities imported through the Slave Gates during the height of the Gate Builder Empire. Beings made more from Ideas and Appetites then flesh and blood. Fortunately many of them were unique, and more importantly benign, such as the Golden Rahl, employed by the Temple of Mr. Spidergod as an icon, who has delighted children for centuries with rides up and along the walls of the temple in Saltbend on his gleaming arachnoid back, his eight perfect eyes full of the kindness that only functional immortality and enormous wealth can bring. A few were more sinister, like the Semi-Lich who guards the Crypt of the Syndics in Ulum Dreii. A creature born in the Land of the Dead, tasked with ensuring the dearly departed, do not, in fact, take it with them. Then there were those who brought perverse, alien ideas to the streets of our great CITY, such as the men of living fire who introduced trade unionism to Narayan, the so-called Hotfellows Local 151. They all but control the Pandoor ovens used in the great temples of Kruetzel located there. How shameful! They call themselves “Azer”. I call them malcontents. And it’s quite true that their race is comprised solely of men. I’ll leave you to consider their unspeakable practices on your own.

So what do we do about this conundrum? Why, we need only look to the wisdom our Founding Fathers in the Gate Builder Empire. They decreed “Power is Knowledge!” Not the other way around, as purported by the scholars from lesser cultures. Those with the power control the discourse. So what if the bestial species imported by the Empire for slave-labor number upwards of 27? What matter if their names were “Uruk”, “Oger”, “Hubgubblyn”, and “Trull”? We’ll call them all Ghul, the old Imperial word for ‘meat’. Or perhaps, the Kaza-Ghul, the ‘Eaters of Meat’, who, in point of vulgar fact, often feasted on each other.

We will gather up races like a child gathers jacks, into categories of our fashioning, and place them neatly out of sight. We do this because it is convenient. We do this in the interest of having a manageable system of knowledge. But let me be unmistakably clear; we do this because we can.

That’s enough theory for now. Let us turn our attention to the important CITY races. First, of course, is Man, but I’ll leave him to the poets and trial lawyers to describe in detail. Next are the four Lesser Races; the Hannumin, Ruhk-Kaza, Shirac, and Garahjah…”

-- Introductory remarks to the Hrazbo-Y lecture series, given by Masshtek Vellolorum, director of the Misanthropic Studies program at the Museum of Defeated Cultures, Eris:CITY, winter 288, Monopolis Standard Year.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
Dannyalcatraz said:
Dexter is definitely lawful- he lives by a strict code.

He does have homicidal impulses, which would lead to thinking he's evil.

But despite his homicidal impulses, his code dictates that he may only kill the guilty. His actions are at least good. This gets him at least Neutral or Good in D&D.
He doesn't fight them in an honorable manner. He drugs them, drags them away in the night, and kills them when they are defenseless. That's not what I would quantify as "good".
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Good doesn't require honor
SRD
"Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.


OTOH
SRD
"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability.
 


Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Rechan
I really don't care what the SRD says about alignment. That's not how it'd do it at my table.

How chaotic of you! ;)

But seriously- that kind of conflation of "Good" and "Law" could be problematic for you down the line.

After all, I bet you could find threads on this very site that discuss & support ambush as a valid tactic for Paladins, or letting them benefit from a "Sleep" or "Color Spray" spell cast by an ally (or by themselves, if they somehow have that capability). Dexter's use of a drug to incapacitate a foe is no different.

Ditto their ability or even mandate to act as judge, jury and executioner under certain conditions, including especially the execution of persons or creatures deemed iredeemably and irrevocably evil. That being's current state of incapacity rarely matters- Paladins are allowed to coup de grace, and if a Paladin is acting within his authority, execution of a prisoner is no different than Dex's action- in both cases, the victim is likely to be incapacitated. (It could be, in certain rare circumstances, that the person to be executed is given "a chance" by virtue of some kind of trial by combat- usually typified by something like gladiatorial combats.)
 


DarkKestral

First Post
Mallus, I love every bit of your in-character CITY posts. The setting reminds me of Mieville's Bas-Lag, Pratchett's Ankh-Morpork, and the Jewel Cities of the Black Company novels in a good way.
 

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