Reinventing the Wheel

[Bedrockgames]

If you're looking at the big picture, it's important to note that this is not just an RPG thing. Here's a well known case from the academic world, where a doctor's research is commonly cited for re-discovering basic calculus:

Medical researcher discovers integration, gets 75 citations

(Note: this post is `just for fun;’ no premeds, doctors, researchers, or nobel laureates were meant to be offended in the writing of this post.) The bane of many American physics grad student…

fliptomato.wordpress.com

I don't mean to brag guys, but I just discovered how numbers can be divided. I call it 'numeric splitting' and it is going to change how you do math

 

[GuardianLurker]

It's been said a couple of times already - most people (even RPG designers) don't have the money or time to cast their net wide for elements. In doesn't help matters that there are a LOT of games. Even if 80% of them are just Fantasy Heartbreakers, the remaining 20% are still nigh overwhelming in quantity.

There's also the problem that a lot of unique mechanics can be drowned out by other more obvious changes. There are also a lot of mechanics buried in time.

For instance, FFG's SW series (Edge of Empire, Age of Rebellion, etc.), which gave rise to the generic/unlicensed Genesys, has the VERY obvious "funky dice" mechanic - which is really cool. But also hard to port. OTOH, it's initiative tracking system is really neat, and can be easily ported. Essentially, every player rolls for initiative, generating a certain number of "slots" that become a party resource. Then the party chooses which party member uses which slot. And no player can use two slots in a round. Really cool. But drowned out by the other mechanics.

As an example of "buried in time"; a number of the early supers games (Champions, DC Heroes [MEGS edition], etc.) had a very similar initiative mechanic to the modern d20 systems - a single roll, ascending is better. But then they added a slight twist; declare actions ascending, resolve actions descending. So the high initiative combatants not only went first, but had the most information. And really easy to lift and use.

And those are both easy to find mechanics, for a heavily used subsystem/scenario (i.e. Combat). Others mechanics, other systems, are harder to find, or harder to reuse. For Instance, I've heard that Forbidden Lands has a "road-building" subsystem. I don't have a copy of the ruleset (Is it on DriveThru?; I haven't looked) and I have no idea how much use it would be, but it actually directly related to something my players want to focus on. And that was just a throwaway comment by someone here. How many have I missed?

But even if I don't reuse/adapt the actual mechanics, I might be able to use the concept. Example: Pendragon has a concept that they call "Winter Phase" - it's a really neat empire-building/downtime subgame. I don't use the mechanics. But nearly every game I've run since (30 years since I first encountered it) uses "Winter Seasons" - periods of downtime lasting a minimum of a few in-world game-months that the players can use however they like.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure but that isn't what I am talking about. When people try and solve the "initiative problem" (just by way of example) they will come up will all kinds of solutions -- most of whiuch have been implemented in some game or another. My question is, why do they reinvent that solution, rather than seek out solutions others have already developed given that the hobby has a 50 year history? Is it simply the nature of gamers to tinker with the rules, and it isn't really about finding the best solution for the problem at hand?

Many people's first response to a problem they're not willing to overlook is to try to fix it themselves rather than look for someone else's answer, especially if they think figuring it out is in their wheelhouse. That way you can just feel good about yourself if it turns out later someone came to the same conclusion you did.

 

[Umbran]

In other words, I am interested in exploring the relationship between seeking answers and developing answers in the context of game rules, in a world where there are LOTS of answers already out there.

You know there's lots of answers out there. I know there's lots of answers out there.

But you and I are steeped in a gaming community. I, personally, have literally scores of games on my shelves. Of course, it is obvious to us that there's lots of solutions out there. And, if I want a solution, I can probably already name three possibilities, and know where to look for more. I know that if I drop one post here looking for advice, I can expect that loads of people are going to be more than happy to mention them.

Most gamers, however, are just folks playing one game they like. They aren't steeped in a broader community, they haven't gone through dozens of games over a decades-long career. Loads of solutions exist, but they don't know that.

And if they had an inkling of it, and they turned to the internet, the signal to noise ratio is horrible. The amount of work required to hunt down, filter out, and find something that might (or might not) do what you want may exceed the effort needed to do it yourself.

Basically, you may be re-inventing the wheel, but doing that winds up easier than searching online for how to make a wheel.

Looking around for existing solutions requires its own sort of expertise. If you don't have it, it may not be better than DIY.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I feel like it is pretty common for folks to come up with solutions to known problem in TTRPGs that have already been not just thought of but implemented, sometimes for years or decades. it seems more common in the years following a spike in D&D's popularity in particular, and these days the very online nature of D&D fans and "influencers" makes this reinventing of the wheel all the more visible.

Why do you think this happens? Why do people end up solving already solved problem in TTRPGs so much, as opposed to seeking out existing solutions? Is it simply the DIY nature of TTRPGs, or is there something more driving it? Is it happening more today, or is it more visible?

What do you think?

My suspicion is that people keep hitting the same problems, but don't necessarily find locating the extent version of that solution easy. I doubt its happening more (outside of whatever degree the hobby populace might be bigger), its just likely to be more visible.

 

[pemerton]

I feel like it is pretty common for folks to come up with solutions to known problem in TTRPGs that have already been not just thought of but implemented, sometimes for years or decades.

I don't get the impression that most folks have looked at other solutions.

Haven't you answered your own question here?

 

[AnotherGuy]

I don't get the impression that most folks have looked at other solutions.

People look at the ones available to them...it is impossible to look at each and every game.

I like and run D&D but I'm unhappy with parts of it - so instead of cobbling together the parts that I feel that need replacement (again), after 35+ years I'd rather create my own. And I'm pulling ideas/concepts from the games I have on hand.

 

[GrimCo]

What all said, people usually don't have extensive library and knowledge about other games.

Even if they do, there is still problem of porting. Does mechanic from other system solves problem on it's own, or does other system does something better cause mix of mechanics together solve problem. If it's a mix, there might be compatibility issues.

 

[Aldarc]

IMHO, I think that the issue is less that people keep reinventing the wheel and more that some designers and homebrewers genuinely believe that they have invented the wheel for the first time. Some of that is simply down to a lack of exposure to other games, and it can take awhile for some people to get out of the "D&D/Fantasy d20 Bubble." It probably took me about ten plus years after entering the hobby before I played my first non-d20 TTRPG.

I do think that playing other games is good practice for game designers, much as reading is good practice for writers. I don't think that you need to play every game out there on the market, but there are definitely some classics and "best of series" games out there that are often recommended. They may not have the "THE solution" to "THE problem," but they can still expand your designer's cap to different mechanics and how they can affect the play experience.

 

[The Soloist]

I once tried to put all the 'perfect solutions' I found in other RPGs to create the perfect RPG system. Didn't go so well.