Level Up (A5E) Relative balance of Herald subclass spell schools

[noodohs]

It just seems rather off to me. I've been creating a holy champion and that gives me access to the good spell list. There are only 4 spells on that list; 2 of them are already Herald spells and 1 of them is too high of a level for me to ever cast, so I only actually get 1 additional spell. Contrast this with the other subclasses:

• Unholy champion gets the evil school which has 7 spells, but the only one they can actually cast is already a Herald spell so they actually don't get any spells. Why even bother giving them a spell list they can't use?
• Inquisitor gets the communication school which has 19 spells. 2 of those are Herald spells and 1 is too high of a level to cast, so they have a net gain of 16 spells.
• Green Knight gets the nature school which has 68 spells (!). 7 of those are Herald spells and 13 are too high of a level to cast, so that's a net gain of 48 spells.

While I appreciate the simplicity and versatility of giving subclasses access to an entire spell school to choose from instead of just giving them a list of 10 spells they are forced to take over time (a la O5E), man does it feel bad looking at the Green Knight's 48 new spells versus my 1 (or the unholy champion's 0). I feel like this is an oversight, but maybe I'm just missing something? Like, thematically the choices of schools make sense, but in terms of actual function... yikes.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

The thematic balance in the corpus of 5e spells is pretty bad. I reckon that the reason that LevelUp has as Pyromancer rather than a Elemementalist is because the support for for non-fire elements in 5e is pretty awful.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Personally I don't see it as a problem. As far as good and evil goes this is future proofing so when more spells come out that are good ir evil the Herald already has those. As far as nature goes, that herald will more than likely not be using many of the classic herald spells so they will need a larger variety.

 

[noodohs]

You don't see it as a problem that you are granted access, as an unholy champion, to a spell school that doesn't net you a single spell while your nature-based friend gets 48? Future proofing is one thing, but you still need balance in the here and now. I want to play the game on release, not in 5 years after the archetypes finally catch up to each other.

 

[WanderingMystic]

You don't see it as a problem that you are granted access, as an unholy champion, to a spell school that doesn't net you a single spell while your nature-based friend gets 48? Future proofing is one thing, but you still need balance in the here and now. I want to play the game on release, not in 5 years after the archetypes finally catch up to each other.

I don't see it as a problem because I already have the spells I would want. If i was playing a pyromancer character who got access to all fire spells but all of the fire spells were already on my classes spell list I wouldn't care if the necromancer got more spells. Thus is just my opinion I think it is a flavor ability not a power ability.

 

[Timespike]

Something else to keep in mind: those spell schools are going to stick around for first- and third- party supplements, and as such, the more anemic ones are quite likely to grow. I know that doesn't help much now, but it is worth remembering.

 

[Stalker0]

You don't see it as a problem that you are granted access, as an unholy champion, to a spell school that doesn't net you a single spell while your nature-based friend gets 48? Future proofing is one thing, but you still need balance in the here and now. I want to play the game on release, not in 5 years after the archetypes finally catch up to each other.

The degree of spells is an eye brow raise but doesn't necessarily cause an issue.

That said, the fact that the unholy champion gets 0 spells I do feel is a problem. If nothing else, if I was a player reading the book for the first time and noticed that....I would definitely believe something was wrong. "Why would the book give me an ability I can't use, that's doesn't make sense....has to be a mistake, etc etc"

 

[VenerableBede]

Something else to keep in mind: those spell schools are going to stick around for first- and third- party supplements, and as such, the more anemic ones are quite likely to grow. I know that doesn't help much now, but it is worth remembering.

I think this is the most important point—while it might be annoying now, the game designers are clearly hedging their bets on A5e being supported for a while, which I like to see.

 

[noodohs]

But... If it's bad now, people won't keep supporting it so it won't have a future. And they will need to add 47 good, 48 evil, and 32 communication spells before that catch-up ever happens. Assuming maybe some overlap between those, that's still at least 100 spells. It's going to be years before that happens and until then, it's limiting my desire to play now. It's a bad look. As Stalker said, it really seems like design oversight and not an intended thing. Any other game, they give you an ability that literally does nothing and everyone would be screaming online about bad game design. It's roughly equivalent to shipping a game with a feature that does nothing, then making you buy DLC to actually use it, so I really don't think that was the intent. I'm not meaning to "scream online" about it (overall, I love LU and am planning on switching my game to it despite this issue), I'm just pointing out so it can be addressed since they are still in the updating phase.

 

[WanderingMystic]

So the simplist fix in my oppinion would be to grant radiant or necrotic instead of good or evil. That atl east gives your herald about 6 new spells .
I still do not think the fact that nature grants 48 extra spells is not a problem but after reading all of the good and evil spells and seeing that most are above lvl 6 is a problem. By granting radiant or necrotic instead you get that feeling of good and evil but with spells you might use even if it's only 6.

The fact that your archetype spells are not considered always prepared is why I don't think it is a balance problem. The spells a Herald already get feel appropriate for the Holy Champion which is why as a concept not getting very many extra spells matter, but getting some could alow for different play styles which I am always for.