Religion-heavy, low-magic campaign settings.. balancing it out

[uv23]

Scenario: Arcane magic is a fairly new discovery but religion has played a part in history for thousands of years, with clerics and divine magic running amok for almost as long.

Mechanics impact: reduced arcane spell lists, emphasis on components, extra wizard restrictions, etc. The specifics are unimportant.

Question: What to do about those pesky clerics? Need they be rebalanced? Need something else change? Or does the "wow factor" of arcane spells stand even if its muted, when being compared to those easily available through the divine.

Note: I treat divine magic and arcane magic as completely seperate things and I always have. That will not change.

Thoughts?

Edit: Additional note. Bards do not exist (they're simply rogues or experts that can play non-magical instruments) and all non core casters have had their casting ability removed (no casting for rangers, paladins, assassins).

 

[Hakkenshi]

I did a spin on this theme a few years back. The difference was that in my campaign, arcane magic had been abandoned centuries ago because people had realized the dangers. Over the years, magic had become so mythically feared that it was completely illegal, and everyone (or almost) was happier that way.

Clerics were toned down in that players were warned that the Goddess (a three-fold deity) would not grant spells frivolously, and that in fact even basic healing spells were considered minor miracles. So clerics were balanced in that using spells too much resulted in them not being granted at all.

It's a story element, and this was a very story-driven campaign. Very little combat.

One thing you might consider if you're crippling mages is to raise HD to d6.

Interestingly enough, I did the same as you for the bard and non-core spellcasters.

 

[BluWolf]

Well my first suggestion would be to put a mechanic in place for divine vs. Arcane magic.

I'm not sure what your definitions of divine and arcane magic are but in my campaign I changed Priest's (cleric) spell DC to Cha instead of Wis, because they are spell casting through a force of will and religious fervor not from deep cosmic understanding. Conciquently, anyone of a differing religion has a +2 to Will saves (ref & fort are unaffected).

SO maybe that is somewhere to start??

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Suggestion 1 - Give all clerics three domains, but they can only cast spells from those domain lists plus the cure/harm spells.

Suggestion 2 - don't do anything and simply create "low magic" by never having spellcasting NPCs. Your magic-enabled PCs will chop through them, sure. But they'll also get a reputation at 5th level for being magic-heavy.

 

[madranturian]

You have just described my campaign...

And no, I don't balance the clerics on purpose. They are to be feared and respected. Arcane magic users and nature worshippers conduct their business in private, for fear of retribution by the powerful clerics of the world. This lends itself to some wonderful role-playing opportunities. In my world, not all clerics are evil, but all distrust arcane magic and pagans who worship nature. If you are an arcane magic user, lawful good clerics are to be feared as much as chaotic evil clerics.

I certainly do not limit the ablities of paladins and rangers to receive spells. This is part of the tension that makes up my campaign. Those with divine rights are often pitted against nature's followers and rangers are a key player in the druid's power structure.

Bards still receive magic, just like sorcerers. But understand, those characters capable of tapping into the energy of the universe and receive arcane magical abilities without studying books and scrolls are big-time targets. Those with divine rights consider them a danger to society (or at least their power base).

Openly using arcane magic in my campaign is asking for trouble. I don't limit the spell list dramatically, but player characters understand that a paladin knocking on their door to ask them questions about their use of arcane magic is a bigger threat than most monsters. No way can you openly purchase arcane magical items. It's contraband.

I'm glad to see others are thinking in this direction. It makes for a very fun campaign.

 

[Quez The Lame]

I'd also limitate divine casting, just for flavour.
So i would favor "inspiring" spells, such as Bless, Aid or Prayer, which have a stronger religious aspect than the magic-like spells (e.g. Sound Burst, Hold Person,...). This includes changes in the spells' effects: A Cleric's Bless would be much more impressing in such a world than in the FR.
Clerics are weakened in that way (which could be positive for balancing) and have stronger abilities to affect and guide their worshipping community.

For arcane casting:
I like the idea of more component usage. Wizards are only beginning to explore the magic, they don't know how to attarct familiars, perhaps they can manipulate only one element so far(which means somebody discovered Burning Hands and Fireball, but lightning, cold, acid and electricity spells are unknown). And so on, and so on...

That setting sounds much interesting, i got to do some thoughts about it.

 

[uv23]

Thanks for the replies so far. Keep it coming. With all the talk of low-magic campaign settings of late, I'm sure there are a lot of people with 2 cents to give.

 

[maransreth]

I think the main thing you need to think about, is are clerics the divine and fighting type or just the pious clerics of ol Christianity.
That is no armour ability and get rid of that good fort save.
Then give them access to a third domain.
Make the normal cleric the temple guards and just limit the amount of spells they get.

Also there would be a large number of clerics everywhere and how do they feel about this arcane magic and their users?
If they feel threatened they might take action against the arcanists and perhaps have ways of overcoming them, eg resistance to arcane spells (+2 to save against certain spells) when they are in a religious frenzy.

 

[JoeGKushner]

One of the things I like about Book of the Righteous by Green Ronin is it sets out to help put religious factors into RPGs for most characters.

It does this through PrCs, goals, guideance and a new core class, the Holy Warriors.

I like the whole Pantheon thing as a political body both presented here and in The Hunt: Rise of Evil, because it helps parallel the Christian church as a political body.