Remember Kits?

[Li Shenron]

Well, Mongoose has class concepts that are similiar to kits in all their Quint books. But other then that I can't think of anything.

If you want something that doesn't require to wait until mid-high level (PrCl) and immediately goes beyond the simple selection of feats and skills, Crothian gave you a good advice to take a look at some Quintessential book.

They basically use the DMG original idea of tweaking the core classes by adding something in exchange to something else (see the DMG example about changing the Ranger into a Hunter of the Dead). It should not be difficult and should not require playtesting - other than try using the class immediately - since you are not rewriting the core class completely, just replacing or changing a couple of things.

I would suggest however to use Mongoose's examples just as suggestions, because they tend too often to be just a "get +2 on this few skills and lose the bonus feat" without real significant change, probably because they were too much cautious.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

Issue #310 of Dragon Magazine (and to a lesser extent, #311) have some kit-like options for some of the character classes. In particular, there are some variant fighter classes that have different skill selections, more restrictions on bonus feats, and a small selection of unique abilities to take in place of a normal feat. The section on monks has some variants that force certain feat and skill selections, and give small bonuses, and variants that replace some monk abilities with abilities from other classes (e.g. a raging monk). #311 has a selection of sorcerer bonus feats that give the character a particular bloodline (descended from dragons, elementals, faeries, etc.), with a specific spell list and the option to take more feats to develop the bloodline. Also, #312 has a few kit-like variants of the Necromancer class.

 

[billd91]

The one thing that I think is deffinately lacking in the new system is the specialty priests. This cannot be replicated with a PrC, because each and every God would have a clergy that is unique, not just unique after 7th level.

I don't know about that so much. For one thing, a PrC doesn't have to start at 7th level, domain powers do offer some nice variety (as do feats and skill selections), and it's easy enough to envision that the first few levels of being a cleric are relatively basic, educational ones in which the character is very low in the hierarchy and not very conversant with the secrets of the faith.

To use an example, a friend of mine runs a game in which there are three cleric PCs out of a party of 6 regular players. We're all pretty strongly differentiated at 3rd and 4th level already because of our domain selections, doctrines, skills, and so on even though our base powers are the same. This particular campaign does make significant use of religious prestige classes for those of us wanting to follow those paths (I probably wont because of the way I'm developing the character). But the DM also makes achievement of those prestige classes a serious challenge (and as a result, they're a bit more powerful as well) so you feel like you're really accomplished something as well.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked the idea of specialty priests in 2nd edition and used them fairly extensively. But I really do think that good and interesting domain powers can do an awful lot to differentiate the previously 'generic' cleric, especially ones that allow the shifting of some of the class skills like the Trickery domain. A PrC can do even more and can be a good reward for a cleric PC who proves himself worthy to the church hierarchy and to his god.

 

[Pagan priest]

Domains are the only saving grace of what they did to clerics in dumping specialty priests. IMC, all clerics are (or rather, were) specialty priests, no generic cleric allowed. Just like in the real world, the clergy of one God are very different from the clergy of a different God. While the domains do modify the cleric a little, you still have plate armored divine spell casters weilding simple weapons, regardless of which Deity they serve.

 

[Crothian]

There are rules in the DMG, optional rules, for changing the base classes. So you can do a little alterations of the weapons and armors of the cleric to create differnces in the churches.

 

[Pagan priest]

Ah, to have unlimited time to spend on D&D...

Yes, I am familiar with those rules, I just have not had time to apply them to the clergy of all the Gods IMC. Fortunately, the only cleric currently in my game is of a Deity that would continue to be very close to the base cleric straight out of the PHB.

 

[Crothian]

It doesn't take that much time unless you are like the Foprgotten Realms with a few hundred gods who's priesthoods you need to define. I've found that a few small difference go a long way.

 

[Li Shenron]

Ah, to have unlimited time to spend on D&D...

Yes, I am familiar with those rules, I just have not had time to apply them to the clergy of all the Gods IMC.

Why would you have to do it? The only clerics you need to apply changes to are the PC clerics (surely not more than a couple). You can wait for other deities' clerics until some NPC comes up.

I know, I know, I am DM too and I have the same tendency to try exhausting things out, like planning the whole campaign pantheon beforehand... but until you actually use a thing, it doesn't really matter if it exists or not.

Right, I am currently reading some quantum physics this month...

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm going to shift this to General.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Charwoman Gene]

The original version of kits appeared in the Dragonlance Tales of the Lance boxed set.

They did not give any extra anything. No free proficiencies. No special abilities. No hindrances. They were all about flavor and representing cultures. As I said, they did not give you extra proficiencies; instead, they TOLD you how you HAD to spend the ones you got to start.

The original version of Kits was in the Complete Fighter's Handbook.
They gave flavor and stuff like you say, as well as special abilities and
drawbacks. Tales of the Lance was MUCH later, probably two full years or so.

"My Hate of D02 Know no limit."