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[The_Gneech]

I always enjoy a good analysis of REH and/or JRRT (and HPL for that matter), but I do have a couple of objections to raise...

REH has unjustly been criticized for creating a world where men are cynical, and where betrayal is more common than actual friendship. But, instead, REH created a world in which friendship comes fast among those who deserve it, and who treat each other with mutual respect. And, opposed to Tolkien’s world, those who deserve it come from all walks of life.

I don't know where you get this last line. Who in the world could possibly be more trustworthy than Sam Gamgee? And who, by the end of the story, is more respected and deserving of that respect?

It is as easy to find a worthy thief in a REH story as it is to find a worthy noble. REH doesn’t look down on people for their walk in life.

See above. Who is it that you seem to think JRRT is looking down on? The orcs? It's not lack of lineage that makes orcs objectionable -- particularly if you go with the "once elves" origin -- it's the fact that they're cruel, petty, greedy, tyrranical, and hate beautiful things.

Now, some might consider this as part of the “cynical world” REH draws. But, if so, we must remember as well that Taurus and Conan met perhaps 15 minutes ago. And Conan trusts Taurus enough to do as he is told.

Compare this, in LotR, to the hobbits’ first meeting with Aragorn, where the “ranger Strider” has a far more difficult time convincing him to accept him as a companion, and tells them that they are still not being cautious enough.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here -- Aragorn has a very specific reason to be paranoid, namely that Frodo is carrying the Ultimate MacGuffin of Doom that will either save or destroy the world, and using it to show off dancing on the tables of the Prancing Pony where anybody and their brother might see it.

Please note that this story was published in 1933; The Hobbit in 1937.

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One might wish to re-read “Spiders and Flies” in The Hobbit with that passage in mind, and note the similarities. Did Tolkien read Howard? If so, he certainly took images and details from this story.

I saw a quote somewhere, now lost to the mists of memory, where someone asked Tolkien if he'd read any of Howard's work, and Tolkien replied that he had and enjoyed it. Whether he specifically drew from this, I have no idea. But he was a big believer in both borrowing, and being borrowed from.

Note the relationship to a HPL story, “A civilized man in his position would have sought doubtful refuge in the conclusion that he was insane”. REH and HPL were long-term correspondents, and the use of HPL-like material in REH’s writing is not an accident.

But REH is not writing a story about how the universe is inimical to human life; he is writing a story about compassion:

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Again, one hears claims that REH’s world is one in which everything non-human is essentially evil. But this creature “from the green planet Yag, which circles for ever in the outer fringe of this universe”, who “swept through space on mighty wings…quicker than light” is clearly related to similar beings in Lovecraft’s pantheon.

Moreover, REH is suggesting that the ancient forces in HPL’s stories may not be as they are depicted by HPL’s narrators – “A civilized man in his position would have sought doubtful refuge in the conclusion that he was insane.”

REH is suggesting a world which “ancient horrors” may well be benevolent, and mortal men may be the greatest monsters:

HPL's creatures as a rule are not strictly inimical to human life either; it's more that on a cosmic scale, human life just doesn't matter. Individual creatures on a similar scale, such as the Mi-Go in "Whisperer in Darkness," can and do get along with humans just fine, and the Old Ones in "Mountains of Madness" are described as being "men," for all their being 12' green barrels with starfishes for heads.

REH ends the story in the only way possible:

Into the waving green gardens came the Cimmerian, and as the dawn wind blew upon him with the cool fragrance of luxuriant growths, he started like a man waking from a dream. He turned back uncertainly, to stare at the cryptic tower he had just left. Was he bewitched and enchanted? Had he dreamed all that had seemed to have passed? As he looked he saw the gleaming tower sway against the crimson dawn, its jewel-crusted rim sparkling in the growing light, and crash into shining shards.​

The Tower of the Elephant is, altogether, among the best fantasy stories ever written. It certainly rewards a careful reading.

The "Was it all a dream?" flavor of this ending, along with others like "Frost Giant's Daughter," is inherited from the earlier "trip of faerieland" literary tradition, which is a well that JRRT draws from often as well. The two of them also employed deliberately archaic language in order to "heighten" their tale, although Tolkien (being a linguist first and a writer second) had a slight edge on Howard in that department, as well as drawing on historical and world mythical sources (where Howard may have had more of the edge, due to his voracious historical reading as a youth). In a lot of ways, the two writers are a lot more similar to each other than people often think.

-The Gneech

 

[Raven Crowking]

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[Raven Crowking]

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[The_Gneech]

At the end of his life, REH was starting to move away from fantasy and horror and towards westerns and contemporary adventure tales; I've heard from REH scholars that those later pieces were some of his best work, but as they're nowhere near as famous as Conan, Solomon Kane, etc., they don't get a lot of popular notice.

I must admit to having a couple volumes of his non-fantasy stuff sitting on my shelves un-read ... but dangit, every time I go to pick one up, I spot a Conan title and end up reading it instead!

-The Gneech

 

[Raven Crowking]

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[The_Gneech]

However, I challenge you to show me the slave, homeless person, or person brought up from the gutter in JRRT who Aragorn et al find worthy to join their company.

I don't know that you'll find a slave, homeless person, or person brought up from the gutter in JRRT at all ... the concepts don't really work in the context of M-E, especially in The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Eriador was devastated by a plague, leaving the land largely depopulated ... there isn't enough of an urban base, even in Gondor, for such complex social structures to really work. M-E is not a land of glittering cities and untold wealth, the way Hyboria is. M-E is haggard populations clinging to moldering ruins and trying to rebuild.

One could argue that some of the Easterling men in Sauron's armies count as slaves, in which case there's a surprising amount of compassion for them too, considering they're "the bad guys." (Sam has a famous speech about a slain Easterling, wondering what led him to Gondor and if he wouldn't have much rather stayed at home with his family ... this was given to Boromir in the movies if I recall correctly.)

Again, the closest we have to someone of supremely low stature is Sam Gamgee, who is arguably the hero of the whole dang story. He's not a slave, but he is a servant, and more importantly, of the serving class (remember, this is based on English culture and a very feudal tradition), which means that no matter what heights he may rise to, he'll always be one of the proletariat and nothing can change that. The reason he calls Frodo "Master Frodo" is because Frodo is a member of the gentry, and Sam is not.

Who is lower than Sam and still a "free-willed" creature (which orcs and the like are not)? The only one I can think of is Gollum, who was of very similar social stature to Sam before the whole "murdered his best friend and stole the One Ring" incident -- and Gollum's "unworthiness" is a flaw in his own character, not a matter of social stature. Frodo, member of the gentry that he is, is much more respectful of Gollum as a person than anybody.

I've never understood where the idea that Tolkien somehow sneered at lower classes came from -- not only is it not supported in the text, it's flat out refuted. They often don't have (or don't believe themselves to have) the agency to become big movers and shakers, it's true -- but that's also realistic. For every Conan who conquers the world through will to power, there are millions of Willy Lomans who are born, live, and die without ever achieving anything. LotR can, among other things, be read as a study on how and why someone who normally would never amount to anything actually does become a mover and shaker, and the effects that has on them.

-The Gneech

 

[Raven Crowking]

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[The_Gneech]

Random thought: probably the closest JRRT "sociopolitical" analogue to Conan (being an outsider barbarian) would be either a Dunlending or one of the Woses. So I could see a mental exercise where Ghan-Buri-Ghan lops off Denethor's head and names himself King of Gondor -- and how would the M-E setting react to that as compared to Hyboria.

Certainly, I can see the nobility of Gondor reacting to that in a very similar way to the nobility of Aquilonia react to Conan. But on the other hand, Denethor is not an indolent, tax-fattened parasite of a noble, either. (A bit deranged, yes, but not a parasite.) I doubt many (if any) of the people of Gondor would see Ghan-Buri-Ghan as a liberator the way the Aquilonian commoners see Conan.

Ghan-Buri-Ghan rising up and taking out Sauron, on the other hand, might get a warmer reception. Maybe. But of course, one of the key themes of LotR is that power is inherently corrupting -- conquer Sauron, and you become Sauron. (This in turn leads to questions about Aragorn's reign that I've always thought could stand more scrutiny, but which aren't really that germane to the JRRT/REH discussion.)

Does Conan become Sauron? Depends who you ask; the poet Rinaldo certainly thinks so, but that's because he's one of them college boys who hate anything that's popular. Conan obviously doesn't think so, and the implication is that neither does REH ... but you can also bet that a generation or two later, assuming Conan actually establishes a dynasty, one of Conan's descendants does. That's just the nature of the beast, in REH's work.

-The Gneech

 

[Raven Crowking]

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[The_Gneech]

This probably points to one of the central philosophical differences between the two, I suspect. In REH, you're worthy to be king because you're awesome; in JRRT, you're worthy to be king because it's the last thing in the world you want to be.

Can you imagine Sam as king of Gondor? It'd be hell on Earth for him!

-The Gneech