D&D General Drow & Orcs Removed from the Monster Manual

[UnknownDyson]

Hello Folks,

I was just looking over the new MM (2024) and I observed that the Orc and Drow entries were removed from the book and replaced with generic NPC templates. Was this really a good idea? I understand that they are trying to move away from dehumanizing (depersoning might be better because neither are humans) sentient races but is the message that we the players are unable to distinguish between good drow/orcs and bad drow/orcs really the one that should be delivered?

These are two of the most iconic enemy stat blocks in the game. I believe they are far more deserving of space in this book than many of the entries within.

This just comes off as a missed opportunity driven by the desire to be "safe" and do we really need that from the same company that is looking to pump out D&D slot machines?

I'd like to hear your comments on this.

 

[Scribe]

Was this really a good idea?

No.

Part of your post is going to likely get you flagged though. Just fair warning.

 

[UnknownDyson]

No.

Part of your post is going to likely get you flagged though. Just fair warning.

Which part? Trying to have a good faith discussion, so I'd love to correct this.

 

[DEFCON 1]

"virtue signal" That is considered potentially charged language that the boards wish to avoid.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Hello Folks,

I was just looking over the new MM (2024) and I observed that the Orc and Drow entries were removed from the book and replaced with generic NPC templates. Was this really a good idea? I understand that they are trying to move away from dehumanizing (depersoning might be better because neither are humans) sentient races but is the message that we the players are unable to distinguish between good drow/orcs and bad drow/orcs really the one that should be delivered?

These are two of the most iconic enemy stat blocks in the game. I believe they are far more deserving of space in this book than many of the entries within.

This just comes off as a missed opportunity driven by the desire to be "safe" and do we really need that from the same company that is looking to pump out D&D slot machines?

I'd like to hear your comments on this.

I think the idea is that even if Orcs and Drow were at one point considered potential enemies in editions past... there's no reason to treat them that way now if we also aren't going to treat Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Dragonborn, Tieflings, Halflings, Goliath, Aasimar, etc. etc. the same way.

If the Monster Manual isn't going to have Goliath "monster statblocks" in the Monster Manual, then why do Orcs and Drow need them? Especially if WotC is trying to move away from the idea that Orcs and Drow are primarily seen as monsters and enemies?

 

[UnknownDyson]

I think the idea is that even if Orcs and Drow were at one point considered potential enemies in editions past... there's no reason to treat them that way now if we also aren't going to treat Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Dragonborn, Tieflings, Halflings, Goliath, Aasimar, etc. etc. the same way.

If the Monster Manual isn't going to have Goliath "monster statblocks" in the Monster Manual, then why do Orcs and Drow need them? Especially if WotC is trying to move away from the idea that Orcs and Drow are primarily seen as monsters and enemies?

I understand that sentiment but Aracockra and Lizardfolk (player character races) are both included, but for some reason changed to be elementals

 

[aco175]

Just as there is no generic human or elf statblock, orcs and drow and now just part of everyday life in a town. Joe, the orc is much different than Morg the orc since he has the Tough guy stats instead of of the Scout guy stats.

I do not see why there cannot be a generic orc like always, or a typical human you find on the road to fight. I guess the Bandit would be typical, so I can make the orc a bandit. I might, or just keep the statblock the same and eventually the orc will fade away. For flavor I might say the innkeeper has a pair of orcs as bouncers and take the Veteran stats and move on.

Maybe all the orcs in my world just became gnolls and the orcs in the PHB are 1/2 gnolls for my game. That would be ok as well.

 

[Remathilis]

I understand that sentiment but Aracockra and Lizardfolk (player character races) are both included, but for some reason changed to be elementals

Actually, elemental "monster" versions are in the "Monster" Manual. You can use the NPC stats to represent humanoid versions.

It's not a perfect solution, and I expect the idea will be expanded on in the future.

 

[Lidgar]

Personally, I'd rather the MM include stat blocks for all the humanoids (including humans, elves, gnomes, dwarves, etc., ala the 1e MM), but that's just me. I view it as an opportunity to explore the unique cultures for each species - for example, the differences between wood elves, high-elves, and drow. That's probably a slippery slope for WotC though.

 

[Charlaquin]

I understand that sentiment but Aracockra and Lizardfolk (player character races) are both included, but for some reason changed to be elementals

Humanoid lizardfolk and aarakocra still exist, and like all other humanoids are represented by NPC stat blocks. The monster stat blocks represent lizardfolk and aarakocra that have been more heavily affected by the elemental planes than the humanoid versions, and are therefore elementals.