Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Removing AoO from D&D
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dcollins said:
Your example is quite contrived and you probably realize that. The base rules and situations are not meant to simulate 10,000 lb opponents; the standard situation is man-versus-man-sized creatures.
The dnd game i paid money for handles size differences quite well.
Sorry yours was not as good.
have you sought a refund?
dcollins said:
If you must, to the proposed rule, just add a clause that 2-size differences avoids the "block". Done.
Sigh...
some times people just do not get it.
the point of the example was not 'see!!! see!!! size does matter. The point was that automatic rule fiats that ignore the actual events are silly!!!" OK perhaps it was crazy.
if the gnome could manage to trip the golem, if he has a real high bab or something and he rolls a 20 and the golem rolls a 1, or whatever needs to happen, then he SHOULD get the chance.
Its just as ridiculous to say "BY FIAT... thou shalt not do anything to the golem..." as it is to say "thou shalt not run past a gnome..."
Its actually a fairly simple gaming principle... when you wat to see if someone can do something, let them try....
if i wanted a game of absolute results no matter what, a fiat for every occasion, i might try chutes and ladders or candyland.
dcollins said:
AOOs, while a useful rule, do (a) slow the game down, (b) interrupt the cinematic flow of players taking their round of actions, and (c) are very confusing to beginning- and even journeyman players. It's insincere to act like they're a cure-all mechanic with no downsides whatsoever.
I have never pretended they were some panacea. I have been noticing the, to my mind, severe flaws with a proposed set.
In my experience, AoOs come into play rarely. Most of the time, the potential victim tries to avoid them rather than take them.
A mage will attempt combat casting rather than suffer AoOs. he may even try a 5' step.
A guy who needs to end run around someone will often work tumble skills or mobility feats or such into his skill set.
Guys needing to drink a potion in a fight are not gonna risk losing it to an AoO sunder/so and will step back.
AoOs only normally occur when there is no option and it is desperate. Those situations come up not all that often in my game.
When they do it is resolved as quickly as "make an evade roll" whack thud... since its pretty much just an attack, no moves or anything, it is very quick.
My games lose far more time to READY ACTIONS than to AoOs. Should i decide to toss those in order to speed things up? Saving throws take a lot longer too, especially if you consider how quickly combats would be over with no saves made. Should they be tossed?
As for the cinematic flow of uninterrupted actions.... i do not know what films you have watched, but its not uncommon for heroes to get interrupted in their actions. How many times have we seen hero start towards the big bad only to see minions ATTEMPT to stop his progress? Sometimes they stop him, sometimes they dont and he just casually bats tem aside. (So much for the IT SHALT BE DONE BY FIAT crowds.)
its not cinematic to FIAT that actions cannot be done.
Are READY ACTIONS equally anti-cinematic? You looking to ban those horrid beasties too?
As for confusion about the rules, i remain completely convinced that no rule set could ever be written, and if it could it shouldn't, that wont confuse some people about some things. (post after post on this very thread convinces me even more.) i would have serious doubts as to its usefulness.
looking over the FAQ, looking over the threads which keep appearing, etc... i am very glad that wotc did not decide to axe those rules some people might find confusing. (Tho, had theym the PHB at 32 pamphlet sized pages would probably have been cheaper.)
look, its quite simple, you clealry have a problem with AoOs and no matter how poorly thought out your BY FIAT THOU SHALT NOT proposal seems to me, the rub is that if it is what you want to have happen in your games then by all means its the answer for you. (The more you post, the more i do think it is a perfect mesh of system and player for you.)
So, by all means enjoy your games, unless you have a rule that says you must or must not enjoy your games in which case you should follow that absolute rule absolutely.
good night and god bless
