Removing Social Skills

[volcivar]

I cannot see a "balance issue". If you remove all social skills, then no one has them. PCs and NPCs. So it is still a level playing field.

Rogues have a lot of social skills as class skills. But they also have a lot of non-social skills. I thing it would be a minimal loss.

If you group likes to role play the situations out, then it seems like a good fit.

What you will find though is that bards and rogues will have a few more points to spend, but I don't think that is a big deal.

 

[totoro]

I think social skills work great. They help show on paper what your character's strengths are, even if it has nothing to do with spells or prowess in combat. Even for those players who have an excellent grasp of their characters' abilities, there may be a temptation (at times) to pretend your character is pretty good at negotiation so you can get more profit. The social skills help make sure that even the (very skilled) player of that half-orc barbarian doesn't suddenly sweet talk the merchant into selling him an axe at a good price. And the DM won't fall into the trap of stereotyping each character based on race (by refusing to allow the half-orc any social benefit even though he has a reasonably good charisma and some decent education and social skill.)

IMO, a good way to use social skills is to make a roll, then do the encounter. For example, if the roll is diplomacy, then the encounter will go better if you roll well. If the roll is gather information, then the person with whom you speak will be more likely to provide information. You can still roleplay everything; the DM just adjusts how friendly or useful the target is.

And, if you want to gloss over an encounter, you can always just handle it with a roll. "I'll buy a longsword." "Make a diplomacy check to see if you have to pay more than the listed price." Or, "I want to find out more about the temple on the hill." "Make a gather information check and I'll give you some info based on how well you roll."

 

[Knowledge Sinkhole]

I think social skills are definitely required in a game such as D&D. The implication that this leads to a lack of role-play is incorrect. Those who do not wish to role play will not do so, regardless of whether there are game mechanics for dealing with social interaction.

Here's an example: How is a player supposed to accurately role play a character with 30 charisma? Even the best role player in the world would be unable to live up to what that stat implies. Is it fair, then, that because the player cannot articulately debate his point with his DM, Zojan the 20th level bard suffers the same problem when arguing with a peasant?

The argument could be (and has been) made that a good DM will take into account what a character's stats are when interacting with the player. News flash: that is what mechanics are for. Certainly, the rules as written need work: just because a player can get a 40 on his diplomancy check when he rolls a one doesn't mean everyone he encounters should suddenly be his friend. But, better rules can achieve exactly what is needed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Player: "I tell the innkeeper that we want rooms for the night."

DM: "The innkeeper looks you over, and tells you that he doesn't have any rooms available for your sort.' "

Player: "Ok.. I tell him that we _really_ need a place to stay."

DM: "Make a diplomancy check."

Player: "I got a 23."

DM: "Hmm.. ok. The innkeeper is so touched by your heartfelt request for aid, that he overlooks your bloodsoaked and travel-stained garments and hands you a key to a room."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

One might claim that the situation described above is pure number crunching, rather than role playing. Well, frankly, I don't think it is fair to expect players playing social characters to possess all of the skills their characters do. How would you like it if your DM made you actually demostrate prowess with a greatsword, before letting your character kill a bugbear?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

One might claim that the situation described above is pure number crunching, rather than role playing. Well, frankly, I don't think it is fair to expect players playing social characters to possess all of the skills their characters do. How would you like it if your DM made you actually demostrate prowess with a greatsword, before letting your character kill a bugbear?

Heh. I agree with you, but in most of the groups I've played with, the players would be more comfortable demonstrating their weapons techniques.

My core group tends to be very socially adept and smooth, but we also get a good mix of social and non-social characters, and the characters with no talent for it don't get the benefit of the players' smoothness. At least, not fully.