removing the Big 6 - how would 3ed play?

[Klaus]

I've always found high-level play in 3ed frustrating and the Big 6 are a big reason why. As I mentioned in the 4E magic item thread, I don't have a problem so much with item creation but the ability of players to cherry-pick the exact items they want, which are invariably always the Big 6.

So what if you removed all static plus items from 3ed and left in item creation.

Items that have both special abilities and pluses, like weapons, shields, and armor, would have abilities only.

Assuming you did this on both side - the PC's and NPC's/monsters - how much conversion would still have to be done? What would be some of the potential problem areas? Would one aspect of the game - saves, attack bonuses, armor class, etc - scale differently from levels 1-20 than another? Would one of those mechanics get more or less effective from levels 1-20?

Without wanting to convert monsters and such:

Give the players more ability boosts. Star Wars Saga gives out two ability boosts at every 4th level (can't boost the same ability, though). If you want to keep gauntlets of ogre power, they increase a PC's carrying capacity as if he were one size larger, and the PC can wield two-handed weapons in one hand. Belts of giant strength increase carrying capacity by two size categories, and the unarmed strike of a PC also increases.

Give the PCs a +1 to all saves and a +1 luck bonus to AC at every 5th level.

Give non-spellcasters +1 to hit and damage at every 3rd level (max. +5 at 15th).

Reduce treasure by about half.

 

[Psion]

The more I hear reasons why people hate 3e for high levels and I don't, the more one simple change becomes obvious as the reason:

Disallow "Magic Item Wal-Marts". Getting magic items in my game is a flea market routine if you don't brew your own.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

The more I hear reasons why people hate 3e for high levels and I don't, the more one simple change becomes obvious as the reason:

Disallow "Magic Item Wal-Marts".

Disallow Item Creation too, and you're all set.

 

[GlassJaw]

Give the players more ability boosts. Star Wars Saga gives out two ability boosts at every 4th level (can't boost the same ability, though). If you want to keep gauntlets of ogre power, they increase a PC's carrying capacity as if he were one size larger, and the PC can wield two-handed weapons in one hand. Belts of giant strength increase carrying capacity by two size categories, and the unarmed strike of a PC also increases.

Give the PCs a +1 to all saves and a +1 luck bonus to AC at every 5th level.

Give non-spellcasters +1 to hit and damage at every 3rd level (max. +5 at 15th).

Well I would certainly use Action Points in a campaign like this, which is much-preferred to giving out static bonuses as you suggested. The flat static bonuses is basically the Iron Heroes approach.

 

[GlassJaw]

Yeah, yeah, no magic items shops, no item creation. Fine.

I really didn't want this thread to be a campaign thread. I really still don't have a good answer for the big question:

What would removing the Big 6 do to 3ed's "math"?
Would the PC's be at a massive disadvantage?
If there is a big dropoff in PC power, are Action Points alone enough to make up for the Big 6?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Yeah, yeah, no magic items shops, no item creation. Fine.

I know, I pooped on your thread. Just wanted you to know I was reading.

 

[GlassJaw]

I know, I pooped on your thread. Just wanted you to know I was reading.

Nah, all good. Just want to focus more on the crunchy bits.

 

[Psion]

Disallow Item Creation too, and you're all set.

In theory, I could see it.

In practice: haven't found it to be a problem and removing magic item creation hasn't really been needed in my games. YMMV

 

[Psion]

What would removing the Big 6 do to 3ed's "math"?
Would the PC's be at a massive disadvantage?
If there is a big dropoff in PC power, are Action Points alone enough to make up for the Big 6?

I wouldn't say that all 6 are necessary across the board.

I do think there would be some sore spots. In particular, I think that the everpresent circlet/cloak is essential to keep the wizard/sorcerer viable at high level, as part of the ongoing effort to keep save DCs high enough that it's worth casting spells with saves.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

In theory, I could see it.

In practice: haven't found it to be a problem and removing magic item creation hasn't really been needed in my games. YMMV

You certainly wouldn't need to remove it if it isn't getting abused.

Abused = all six Big Six, across the board, all the time.

For the record, my groups (as player or DM) have never abused it either.

The problem is when it becomes the expected default, and mechanics/adventures start getting balanced towards it (witness 3e).